Anyone else think this whole Larry Craig thing assumes a lot?

Question

I have no idea how wide the stalls in question were - there's no uniform size. I've "reached down" to pull my trouser cuffs up over my heels so that they didn't get smudged when I stood up, to pick up another roll of t.p., a newspaper, etc....

It's really not clear what "gesture" was made - the police officer in question just says he saw Craig's wedding ring - - a lot of people are jokingly asking if it's safe to to go the men's room or whether a GOP Senator will proposition them for sex - - - is it reasonable to ask whether it's safe to go to the restroom without someone confusing some random act like picking up change that fell out of your pocket to be a proposition for sex?

Also - even if it were, what's the crime - there's certainly no evidence that if whatever "gesture" it was was in fact a proposition, that it was a proposition to have sex RIGHT THERE - - - I mean, straight males pick up women in bars, we proposition them all the time, that's not a crime....

I'm not taking a side or defending or accusing anyone, I'm just observing that, unless there's some uniform gesture that I'm not aware of, it sounds like if a quarter falls out of my pocket while I'm on the toilet in the men's room and I bend over to pick it up, some homosexual guy in the next stall could think I'm propositioning him.

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of evidence here - nothing was said, nothing specific really alleged, other than "made a gesture" - it just seems pretty fuzzy.

If this is obvious to everyone else and I just don't know what goes on and what the 'gesture' is, I apologize.

Yeah but he pled guilty to "disorderly conduct" - - - - I blasted Cream's "Deserted Cities of the Heart" in my car on the way into work this morning, with the windows open, on the Mass. Pike - - that could have been disorderly conduct, it could have been noise pollution, it could have been a moving violation, or it could have been (as it was) nothing, depending on whether the state trooper that passed me had liked his dunkin' donut that morning.

Vet I don't know, like I said I don't know how wide the stalls were - - - I've lost some weight but my "stance" was wider a few months ago - - - I'm not saying I suspect he's "innocent" - - before this news story I didn't even know who Larry Craig was, it's about the underlying issues for me not the pols themselves - - I'm not saying it was some kind of set-up - just wondering if there's more to it, because it's conceivable that some guy at the Meadowlands drops his ticket, bends over to pick it up and they guy in the stall next to him thinks he wants to be the "wide receiver."

Cracka there's no evidence that, even if he made some universally known (though unknown to me) gesture that means let's have gay sex, that the intention was to have it right there rather than go to the Airport Hilton.

It's a criminal case - so you'd need that evidence.

All he pleaded guilty to was "disorderly conduct" - like I said, Ginger, Jack and Eric this morning could count as "disorderly conduct."

WS no, I didn't give you the thumbs down - - - I don't want to "debate" this one, I'm not sure what there is to "debate" - - it's just an open-ended question.

I'd be asking the same thing if he were a Dem by the way, I have no idea which kind of Rebublican Larry Craig is/was, a Jesus Republican or a David Ricardo Republican like myself.

John the stall door doesn't go to the floor, and the only thing that's clear is that the officer could see his hand - - you can see a few FEET into the stall next to yours, you can see FEET and know if it's occupied. So if someone drops their game tickets you can see that, you can see them pick them up.

I'm just wondering if I'm ever taking a crap at Fenway and I drop my ticket and reach over to pick it up, if I pick it up with three fingers instead of four is the guy in the stall next to me going to think I'm asking him to play pitcher/catcher - - -

I mean doesn't anyone else think, if there were just two of them, and that's what someone wanted, wouldn't he just ask?

No, it was disorderly conduct, at least according to the article I read. Besides, "lewd behavior" he was in a MEN'S ROOM - USING the men's room - that involves, well, taking it out - - - - if you shake more than once is that lewd behavior????

WS you don't know who David Ricardo was?

.....that would explain a LOT.

Corrector I definitely agree with you there and I do the same thing. But when you gotta go....

I don't know, it just seems pretty flimsy after reading the arrest report and the plea was to disorderly conduct, interfering with arrest, not to the encounter in the bathroom - - - did his flight come in to the gate near that bathroom? (I.e., the gates are assigned as the flights are coming in, so if he came into that gate.... versus if he'd come into another gate and walked halfway across the airport....) And the officer said he didn't flush the toilet - - - had he gone? Those details would be very telling - but we don't have them.

Didn't anyone else see "Something About Mary?"

I think it's clear the GOP would let him twist in the wind innocent or guilty, after Foley they just want the story to go away - - - except that it WON'T, the media will talk about this right up until November 2008 - - - they'll drop the name in there on the Sunday talk shows in October '08, you can count on it, even if he resigns today.

WS I HATE that song. Couldn't you have quoted "The Thrill is Gone" by B.B. King instead?

Answer 1

The police officer stated that he also moved his foot around...no where does it state he put his foot inside the other stall...here's a link to read the report for yourself...I would also like to add that Craig pled guilty to the second charge against him Disorderly Conduct...He argued with the officer...not the privacy one which was the first charge...he did not plead out on a sexual charge..If he is guilty then he needs to go...but lets not race to hang a man on such flimsy evidence...
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/craig_report.pdf

Answer 2

If you were accused of trying to pick up a dude in the bathroom, would you plea bargain? Would any straight guy? No.

But for a month this remained hidden, until around the same time as the GAO report came out that the President has failed 15 of the 18 benchmarks established for Iraq. Does anyone else find the timing oddly coincidental?

Answer 3

i think the charge was "lewd behavior" which doesn't mean anything, pretty vague. at this point in time i don't think it even matters anymore even if it was a misunderstanding or entrapment. Republicans are calling for Craig's resignation, the media and the public have already made their decisions. Craig handled the situation poorly, pleading guilty. I think this situation does assume a lot, and if this guy is guilty or innocent, his reputation is damaged beyond repair, so he should just retire or become a consultant or something.

Answer 4

Some telling evidence is how the GOP is fleeing from Craig like he has the plague. If this was all nonsense, I would hope the GOP would back him up. As it is, the Democrats are laying low and the majority of the flak is coming from his own party.

To be honest about this, it's a tragedy for Craig's sanity and his family. There should be no snickering and no smugness about his dilemma. Think of his wife and kids.

Answer 5

Do you guys usually make it a habit to to play footsies?

I wonder if this is the first time his "stance" has given him a problem.

Do you guys normally peer through the door crack?

Come on.

Besides, he plead guilty.

What if it had been a young boy in there instead of a cop? Would it still be okay with you?

And besides, I think the cop knew what he should look for, this sting has been going on for a while with 41 arrests made before this.

Answer 6

It doesn't matter what the facts are now, the dummy pleaded guilty already. If he was smart he would have entered a not guilty plea and consulted a lawyer. But by pleading guilty he is guilty. You can pose all the questions and post all the facts you want, it will do no good.

Answer 7

Any responsible District Attorney would have NOT prosecuted this case based on this flimsy evidence.

That said: Craig was stupid to plead guilty to anything.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Who needs a stupid guy in the legislature?

Sure there are probably more stupids but we should get rid of them when they demonstrate it.

Craig should go, gay or not, he is certainly stupid. NEXT

Answer 8

The main issue here has nothing to do with gay sex. The fact is the senator was charged with a crime and plead guilty yet told no one about it, including the senate ethics committee.

Answer 9

You're back.

Why do you ask questions if you're not looking to debate?

Also this happened in June and it took him two months to plead guilty.

And he pleaded guilty. So yes it does assume a lot.

He knew what he was doing! The fruit cake.

Edit: You gave me the thumbs down didn't you? Didn't you?

Edit: OHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Your name is David Ricardo?

Edit: Why do you enjoy looking into stalls in men's bathrooms like Craig?

Edit: Why do you hate me? What did I ever do to you?

I am not the one promoting gay sex like you are!

Edit: Why do you hate america? What did it every do to you?

Edit: Have you lost that loving feeling?

Edit: What song David Ricardo? Who is B.B. King?

Answer 10

I just fell out of my chair due to all the spinning...the guy admitted guilt...propositioning someone for sex in a public restroom is illegal....men do pick up women at bars, but they don't have sex at the bar