Should the Greek Church be seperated from the state?

Question

Hoplite, the church is related to the state in Greece..

Answer 1

State and Church unification derives from the first years of Ottoman period, when, for administrative reasons, the Patriarch was the leader of Orthodox people and Church was competent for the internal affairs of the communities (Vilaet).
Through all these 400 years the Church (Patriarchate, local Bishops, Monasteries) collaborated with the central (Divan) and local (Kaimakam) authorities and were granted privileges (taxation exempt, jurisdiction in civil cases etc) and enormous properties by Fermans and Fetfas.
Upon creation of the Greek State the Church (the Greek independent one) harried up to keep this status and promote it even further, cultivating the myth of its contribution to the liberation of Greece.
The influence has been so extent that even now-days being Greek cannot be accepted if not Orthodox too, although Orthodox are also Bulgarians, Rumanians, Russians, Georgians, etc
The Greek Church plays a decisive role in politics, enjoys scandalous privileges, is financed by the State (our taxation), and is always present at any manifestation of our everyday life.
Religious oath, Icons in the Court houses, catechism and prayers at school, civil ceremonies (Parliament sessions, oath of new Military and graduate Students, etc).
It's not too long ago that there were desciminations towards catholic greek citizen (called fragolevantinoi), and muslim greek citizens.
And let's not forget that one of the worse consequences of identification of religion and citizenship has been the abolishment from Crete of the muslim Cretans, who now live in Syria, Turkey, Libya etc and they still feel Cretan, speaking greek and keeping the greek customs.
Unification of State and Church it is not only lack of democracy, but also it has proved to have caused damage to the national affairs of this country.
So, definately SEPARATION here and now....

Answer 2

What exactly do we mean by separation?The involvement of the Church in the state is a little strange. I mean, the Church doesn't have an actual say in what happens, institutionally, but even if it is "separated" it is certaain that the Bishops will still have a lot of influence, won't they? We have civil wedings, we should have civil oaths too, and yes the lesson of religious education should be different, but that is a responsibility of the Ministry of Education. Other than that, it all comes down to money. Paying for the priests' salaries, well I don't mind that, they do perform civil servant duties anyway and many of them also have a good social role in welfare actions etc. Plus I am under the impression that the church gave land property to the state long ago in exchange for the priests' salaries. So, although I believe in secular states completely, I don't think Greece has any problem nowadays, it is mostly Christodoulos who tries to interfere where he has no institutional right to, and i think even that has brought about the people's indignation and he has stopped it.

Answer 3

I think that there comes a time for change - now , I am not saying away with the church! but times and people due change !

religion does not! the effort stays the same -the story stays the same -but even if a church story stays the same there is no need to drop what has been taught and given to us by the Greek orthodox church - what happens in government is not directly related to the church! one is a believe system and the other is a system of protocol ,law ,distribution and social reform! a Church is not trained to take on global responsibility within a union as huge as the EU! and it is only getting bigger!

but I think the church can still be there on a local level of support! just not governmental state!hope I didn't confuse anyone!

It takes diplomacy Leonarda! and a lot of it from all sides of the theatre!

Answer 4

The Greek Church must be separated from which state? Since it is Greek church, I believe should be in Greece and be separated from other states. Yes, I agree.

Answer 5

Not just in Greece, in every country.
Religion and state are products of society, but of a different kind, and they shouldn't be mixed.
In theological way of speaking, church should more worry about heaven's kingdom and leave to state to deal with trivial things.
Countries where religion = state are for example Iran, or taliban's regime in Afghanistan. I wouldn't like to live in country like that.
Of course, church deals with live people, it can't shut eyes on their problems. It's normal that church have attitude on politics, but the question is how much influence and real power should it have?
I don't have anything against church, I consider myself as believer and christian, but for sake of all people, church shouldn't deal with state's bussiness.
These two "institutions" (let's call them like that) are substantially different, based on different postulates, and made for different purposes.

Answer 6

Even if this happens, the Church will still have huge influence on our politics! Don't forget that the power is in the hand of those who can influence masses and have the money! Our Church has both of these.

Answer 7

That's a hard call to answer.
I guess one would need to be Greek or a Greece citizen to speak informatively.

Amongst most English speaking nations, the separation of Church and State is an accepted policy and, for them, it seems to work.

In other cultures it may not be so simple. Sometimes church and state are so intrinsically bound as to be one concept.
To attempt separation in these cases would be like dividing one half of the body from the other; the whole body dies.

Ultimately each culture must determine their own system and destiny that works for them. It's not for others to externally direct or impose, as Bush's U.S. is in Iraq and elsewhere.

Answer 8

Yes it should. As the above user stated , not only in Greece but in every country. Check out the theocratic countries around the world, they are still 3rd world countries and humans are treated like pigs.

Answer 9

Actually they have been separated for a long time now. The church is not involved in politics or government. Secular and religious power are separate and are so stated in the Constitution. Hristodoulos the Archbishop of Athens was told to stay away from political involvement in no uncertain terms by all parties and newspapers alike-he tried to make political comments when newly elected. He shut up.

Answer 10

No doubt it must. Being a citizen is one thing and being a believer a completely different one.
Even in Bysantine times there was what we call (Dyarchia), meaning the Emperor and the Patriarch had separate competences.
Only the Vatican can combine politics and religion for functional and historical reasons.

Answer 11

Indeed it is related, and yes, it should be seperated from the state. Orthodox church always had trouble abandoning their old beliefs and ideas.. its time for them to let the state work properly.

Byzantium legacy ended some time ago.. Some people tend to forget that