Bits - are you aware of the severity of different mouth pieces?

Question

I am asking this because I keep hearing all this "natural" stuff but yet the same people are using or promoting severe mouth pieces on their horses. A snaffle provides a "nutcracker" action to the mouth, the tongue, lips and bars and if used and/or fitted incorrectly (which not many talk about)can be very damaging to the horse. I was also wondering what everyone considers a snaffle... snaffle does not mean a jointed mouth piece, it means any bit that does not have leverage. A snaffle does not have a purchase and/or shanks.

Jointed mouth - nutcracker action
Mullen mouth - very mild mouth piece
French mouth - reduces the "nutcracker" very mild
Dr. Bristol - slightly more severe than the french link
Slow Twist - "nutcracker" style, stronger and more severe.
Cork Screw - Severe
Single and double twisted wire - two of the most severe

Also, when selecting a mouth piece for you horse do you consider that he may have a flat pallet?

My aplogies, this was not to be construed as a lecture. It was meant as a learning tool for those who are not aware and need help in finding a bit.

wow, I just read a sad post and it brings me back here. To anyone that is angered at my post, my apologies. A while back I posted another one like this only in regard to halters and panels, I sure wish I could have gotten that out to more people.

So, for those that are loosing control of your horses due to switching to a jointed snaffle, please do some research and keep yourself safe. (but I'm going to add this) Not all horses are going to work in a snaffle, and not all riders are trainers or know how to properly use a snaffle AND MANY DON'T have arenas, trainers, etc. They wide open country, roads, dangers all around them and it scares me to see everyone yell "snaffle". For those that are using a jointed snaffle and cannot stop your horse, do not pull back with both hands, that snaffle can lock against the horses molars, creating that "nutcracker" effect and you will loose all control, you need to pull with 1 rein to "unlock" it and gain control.

Barbara B - you took this out of context, maybe I did not do a good job at writing my post but, it was not to bash anyone but to let others know what kind of mouthpiece does what. If someone wanted to do "natural" and be as soft and gentle as they could but put the wrong mouthpiece on the snaffle they could actually be hurting the horse more than what they were previously using. And, a not so experienced rider could become injured if they bought old tough mouth who was never trained properly and drop into a snaffle and head out down the road! Someone could get seriously hurt. Thats all, I meant not to offend you or anyone else.. but I am not going to pull my post because you think I'm jerk or know it all for posting it! Believe me, I'll be the first to tell you that I'm not, I keep learning everyday but everyone has their own opinions.

Answer 1

I think it's sad that you've had to go back and justify your question because some people have got so bent out of shape. I am a firm believer in riding in what works for both me and the horse and I don't believe that every horse will go well in a snaffle no matter how much schooling and ground work you do. I think it's way better to be able to use a more severe bit correctly with gentle hands then be forced to saw the horse's head off trying to stop it in a snaffle. I think the fundamental underlying problem that we see on this board is that some people have no true understanding of the principals of biting and how bits work and assume that all snaffles are kind and gentle and all curbs are severe. Technically speaking a twisted Barry gag is a snaffle because of it's 2 jointed mouth pieces and those things can be vicious while bits with high ports are sometimes considered severe but those with the highest port possible that will not come in contact with the hard palate can be quite mild.

Answer 2

This is a great question. Dang girl, your on a roll here lately.

To the post above me...that is so not called for. Nothing wrong with her question. She is just being informative. Stop being so hateful and see the post for what it is. INFORMATIVE and yes, a spade bit is a good bit, I'll agree with you on that.

I use an egg butt snaffle to tone up my barrel horse, he works great in it and when I run him I use a wonder bit. He is just so light I guess I could run him in the snaffle but I don't. Well, now I can't at all (sniff).
My grandfather uses a port mouth...whaddya call it..all one solid piece. Yuck!! Good news is I have gotten him to start using my bittless bridle.
On my filly I have never ever put a bit on her.
being a barrel racer, I have seen some AMAZING bits! Some that make you scratch your head and wonder what the heck those people are thinking. If they would just train their horse then they wouldn't have to have that! haha My friend in Houston is a walking tack store. She has every bit you could think of having and then some. I just don't get it.
But, back to bits...a lot of people think the smaller bits and snaffles are the best. They don't realize how they are hurting their horses, not that they are being mean, they just don't know. I think everyone should take a bit class. I did! Boy did it open my eyes and I have been around horses and bits all my life!

Answer 3

First off to Barabara B (& Ifh1213 also) why is it necessary to be so judgemental? If you were REAYLY paying attention, retorical questions like this are SO needed in here! There are a MAJORITY of horse owners on here that in my opinion have absolutely NO idea what they are doing or how to do it, and the sad part is they are giving advice to others that have NO idea what they are doing. hhqh is simply trying to help!

Yes, It does MAJORLY depend on whose hands those reins are in for the severity of just about ANY bit, BUT being as the great majority have uneducated hands (even the ones that think they don't), I think it up to others to not only becarfull on their advise, but be aware of who they may be giving it to and how those will be using it. Which, I think, is the point of this question/ statement!

I always thought that a snaffle WAS a jointed bit other wise it was not called a snaffle.
So, " I " learned something new, thanks!

I personally ride in....
rubber D snaffle
loose ring elevator bit
wonder bit
eggbut snaffle
full cheek snaffle
and for western a tomb thumb.
All jointed snaffles, and different horses of course.
I have always considered jointed snaffles to be on the mild end of the spectrum of severity (the thick ones or hollow mouth only) and have had good results from them. Not to say by any means that they are for everyone!
Absolutely NO twists of ANY sort or even anything narrow or thin in any way, long shanks, ports, or major gag concauctions in my barn!

I must say I have honestly never considered if any of them have a flat pallet or not (or any horse I have worked for that matter). That IS something to be considered. I also don't think I have ever used one of those bar looking bits (not sure what they are called, dog bone bit?), they look soft, don't know if they are or not.

Thanks hhqh for your informative questions, they are ALWAYS appreciated in my book!

Have a star!

Answer 4

This is truly a great question and great point to make too.
The combinations of mouthpieces, links, curb chains, shanks, angles and leverage genuinely turn the whole bitting procedure into a science.
I have looked long and hard at things and thought out the action of the bits before I have gone so far as to try one.
I put on a question a while ago about my horse with no brakes and someone actually suggested a loose ring snaffle for him - frightening thought. Also very frightening that someone else may actually have tried it in a similar instance.
Again this coincides with a question asked earlier - bits should be supplied with a set of detailed fitting instructions and explanation of the action.

edit
I did also consider the shape of his mouth size of tongue etc.

Answer 5

Also remember the thinner the bit the harsher it is, I like snaffles myself. I like egg butt snaffles, french training snaffles, full cheek snaffles and I get them as thick as I can find them unless I know I have a hard mouth horse then I get the thin bits until he learned to listen. As others have pointed out it is not really the bits that do the damage it is the rider that uses the bits improperly that are causing the damage.

Answer 6

Well, I've certainly learned something from your post. I am, at the moment, not very knowledgeable about bits and bitting because I don't particularly need to be, but as someone associating with the horse world it's always good to know everything possible and I have been trying to learn more about them lately, you've definitely helped with that mission. Thank you!

Answer 7

HH - thanks. I have ridden forever, taught by family who rode and the more I learn the less I think they know!
I have always used grazing curb bits or hackamores but since I got my Arab someone suggested a "dog bone snaffle" which I now see by your more correct definitions is a French mouth with a d ring. (I Googled them all to see what they looked like). I am glad to see it is mild, he wasn't responding well to the grazing but is doing excellent in the French.

Also, I never thought of the flat pallet. Excellent point and is it something I can ask my vet next week when he gets his teeth done? Or is this something you can find out on your own?

I am appreciative of posters such as yourself, I love to learn and posters that are constructive are a great source of knowledge. Thanks.

Answer 8

yes i am aware, and i think that you also need to add that a bit does no harm when alone - it is the rider's hands which cause the harm so the severity is a combination of the actual bit used and the way in which it is used

Answer 9

yea ha a sensible question and good explanation. there was one question last week where I really wanted to say to the person asking the question that she really should consider sticking barb wire in her horses mouth, because that 's what she was preposing

Answer 10

Thanks for the info. for the most part I don't use a bit (only when my horse is being stubborn), but when I do i use a snaffle