Was the Allied Bombing of Civilians in WWII (Dresden Ect..) a Necessity or a Crime?

Answer 1

Neither.

If we were willing to pay a much higher price in casualties we certainly could've fought inch by inch and probably could've won. It was expedient and more humane to bomb the cities than to fight on top of them for an extra several years. Total war is terrible, but frequently more humane because by holding the whole population accountable for their terrible government, the overall cost of war is much less. Just imagine what would've happened if the Allies had taken Japan by infantry attacks. It would've dragged on for years, and millions would've starved or been killed when the fighting reached their cities. They may hate to admit it but not only were an estimated million allied lives saved by the atomic bombs, many millions of Japanese are alive today only because of those terrible bombs. In the cruel calculus of war expediency is sometimes the most humane way to go.

It is one of the awful side effects of consensual government that we Republics hold even the people living in despotisms accountable for their rotten governments. We 'know' that even tyrants govern only by the will/consent of the people, since all power derives from the people. Which means that tyrants are the fault of the people they oppress.

In Germany Hitler was wildly popular, and the Emperor of Japan was considered divine. Hitler was oppressive as could be, but like most tyrants, he was beloved. A tyrant uniformly hated doesn't last long, which means that Nazi Germany was a democracy as are all forms of government.

In a narrow focus the bombings of Dresden and Tokyo and the Atomic Bombs were all terrible things, but seen in the larger whole they saved more Germans and Japanese than allies. Hard to call that a crime against humanity.

Answer 2

It was during the war, therefore it was not a crime.

This type of question should be banned. In a world in which everyone was perfect there would be no war, no crime, no suffering of any kind. Because there are a few people who are not only imperfect but downright evil, such as Hitler, they do terrible things which require others to take steps against them, and often it is necessary to do something that one would normally not want to do.

The point of the Dresden bombing was to DISPROVE Hitler's claim that Allied bombers could never penetrate the heart of Germany. Remember that Hitler invented the Blitzkrieg in which cities were bombed to rubble as a way to make the citizens of those places surrender. Germany regularly bombed London and other major British cities.

If you regard the retaliatory bombing of German cities as a crime, what should Britain have done instead? Just let the Nazis win?

Nobody denies that bombing of cities is dreadful. Unfortunately that is what happens in war. Until the world is occupied by angels and saints, it will probably continue to be a fact of life.

Answer 3

A necessity! War was fought to win in those days. The Germans didn't give a damn who their V-2 rockets fell on, a school a hospital a nursery. So bombing Dresden, clearly an industrial area was definitely NOT a crime.

These days with "smart munitions" we have a much better record of hitting military targets and sparing civilian ones.

We should not however let our attempt to be as humane as possible become a reason to persecute our good men and women in the military when a mistake is made and a civilian target is hit.

It is still war and you can't have it perfect.
.

Answer 4

I answer this question at the rate of about once a month So I will paste my standard Dresden defence letter below.

As for whether the bombing of large areas of Germany was a war crime let us look at facts.

55,000 people were killed during the blitz (not 540,000 as someone stated above) No-one calls this a war crime.

I must also state that the claim from the poor misguided lady in an answer above that Dresden was an open city and undefended is complete and utter nonsense. Dresden was very short of Anti Aircraft defense because it had been taken away for use against the Russians on the eastern front. Allied planners DID NOT know this. As explained in my letter below Dresden was an industrial town which had escaped serious attention of the allied air fleets but was now about to suffer its turn. Nothing more nothing less.

Civilians have suffered on the front line of war since time immemorial.
When the Barbarians sacked Rome, did they ask whether a man was a soldier before killing him?

War is a filthy business. People die. The only thing to do is to make sure that as few people die as possible. If that means destroying towns to make sure that the enemy does not have the capacity to produce weapons to kill soldiers on a beach then so be it. Why should a soldiers life be seen as any less precious than that of a civilian?

Many people say that the air bombardment of Germany served no useful purpose. Consider these facts. Approximately 55,000 anti aircraft guns were deployed in germany alone. 37,000 of these were the superb dual purpose 88mm. If the allies had not bombed Germany these weapons would have been deployed in their other role as Tank Killers on the Eastern front and later the western front. The half million soldiers manning them would have been used in the same areas. Most importantly the allocation of large calibre ammunition would have been changed so that the 80% that was used for Anti Aircraft duties would have been fired on Stalingrad, Moscow and the Normandy beaches on June 6th 1944. How do you think that may have affected the outcome of the war?

Quote: The allied Air offensive destroyed 40% of the German manufacturing capabilities in the last year of the war.
Albert Speer Reich Minister for armaments.
I think he may have some clue about which he is talking. That is 40% less weaponry and ammunition to throw at the liberating soldiers, sailors and airmen.



Start of letter

The bombing of Dresden by RAF Bomber Command AND the USAAF was NOT
a mistake or a War Crime.

In early 1945 the war was far from over. We were still camped outside the borders of Germany, V2 rockets were still falling. we had just fought the battle of the Bulge where the supposedly defeated Germans suddenly punched a huge hole in the Allied lines, German Rocket and Jet aircraft were coming off the production lines and proceeding to rip the hell out of the allied air fleets. No one knew what else the Nazis had up their sleeves.

It was an operation undertaken due to many reasons.

1. A request from the Russians at the Yalta conference in February
1945. General Antonov "We want the Dresden railway junction bombed"
Meeting between the Chiefs of staff as reported by an interpreter.
2. It was a German base of operations against Marshall Koniev`s left
flank as he advanced into Germany. (See above) Captured German High
Command documents from Berlin 1945 "Dresden is to be fortified as a
military strongpoint, to be held at all costs."
3. Munitions storage in the old Dresden Arsenal.
4. Troop reinforcement and transport centre shifting an average 28
troop trains through the marshalling yards every day.
5. Communications centre. Most of the telephone lines connecting
High Command to the Eastern front went through Dresden.
6. Quote from The Dresden Chamber of Commerce 1944. "The work rhythm
of Dresden is determined by the needs of our army."
There were 127 factories in the Dresden Municipal area. The most
famous of these was Zeiss the celebrated camera and optics maker. In
1945 it was turning out Bomb aiming apparatus and Time fuses. (If you think the Dresden China Works making those lovely shepherdesses are more famous, they are actually made in Meisen 12Km down the River and always have been.)
A factory that previously made Typewriters and sewing machines was
making Guns and ammunition
The Waffle and Marzipan machine manufacturer was producing
torpedoes for the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe.
The arts and crafts workshops in the old town were using their
woodworking skills to make the tail assemblies for V-1s.
Other factories were turning out such non warlike goods as
Searchlights, Aircraft components, Field Telephones and 2 way radios.
Yet another quote, "Anyone who knows Dresden only as a cultural
city would be very surprised to be made aware of the extensive and
versatile activity that make Dresden ONE OF THE FOREMOST INDUSTRIAL
LOCATIONS OF THE REICH. (My Capitals)
Sir Arthur Harris? A Post war exponent of the bombing campaign?
Nope both wrong.
It comes from the Dresden City Council Yearbook of 1942.

Ray.

Answer 5

It was a strategy that didn't really work but was reasonable at the time.The Germans had bombed half of Europe and the UK targeting civilians and the British tried to demoralise Germany by bombing non military targets such as Dresden but has with the British people this made the enemy more determined.Before people go on about others being ignorant of the facts they should get their own facts right ,this was bombing aimed at non military targets and has bomber Harris the officer in charge of Bomber Command said in his opinion the live of one British Grenadier was worth more than any German city' his intention being to save our soldiers life's at the cost of German civilians who contrary to what was said later assisted and condoned the killing of 6 million people .The city I was born in - Hull had 98% of its buildings damaged by German bombs so I cant really work up much sympathy for the Germans.

Answer 6

Area Bombing of German Industrial Cities was a necessity during the war. Without this the full weight of manufacturing and output of war materials would have been greatly improved. Look at how many fighters, Anti Aircraft guns (especially the infamous 88mm), Personnel for Command and Control as well as manning all the defences, bunkers and static defence areas created, where placed inside Germany alone, not including those in the occupied territories.
Speer the leading light from 1942 to 1945 of the German realignement of its manufacturing base done wonders with the semi smashed economy, if he had all the resources destroyed and take out the disruption caused by the bombing, how many new battalions of Panzers would have been created? how much more could have been done on the V wepons programme? How many more Jet aircraft would have been produced?
Apart from that there is also the problems behind the abilitiy to strike against the enemy. The agreements before the conflict indicated that no undue damage to non military areas would be allowed during armed conflict and a definate military target will be attacked. Fine in words and during 1939 and early 1940 many sorties where made against the German Ports attempting to damage them and destroy some of the German Fleet. Even though the Germans discarded the rule on the 2nd of September 1939 when they attacked Warsaw, then of course they used the Airfleets against France, Belgium and Holland. Even then there was no real retaliation by the RAF on German Cities, even though pressure was mounting to make a show of force.
As for Dresden. It was a legitamte target at the time, It was a centre of transport for forces being switched from west to east against the Soviet Attacks, an area that had many undamaged war work factories in place, also unfortunatley it was filled with refugees trying to flee west and had many POW groups in the city as well. The idea of a virgin target is wrong as Dresden had been bombed before but only lightly.
If things had gone as planned the USAAF would have opened the attack during the day but the weather was against them, then the RAF struck. The Order did not come from Harris, but direct from Portal and the War Cabinet.
As for the rest of the Startegic Bombing Campaign, Area Bombing was the only possible course open to the RAF from 1940 onwards to 1945 as the Navigation, Guidance and Precision was not possible at night, flying over unlit areas of land. Look at the Channel 4 program a couple of years back where they sent a plane with an experienced RAF navigator flying at night between two points in the UK, with no black out, just using time and compass points, he was something like 100 miles out from his aiming point, even with the aid of a non blacked out country giving some clues as to where they where.

Answer 7

An opinion was rendered in international courts to wit:

"in the light of international humanitarian law, it should be borne in mind that during the Second World War there was no agreement, treaty, convention or any other instrument governing the protection of the civilian population or civilian property, as the Conventions then in force dealt only with the protection of the wounded and the sick on the battlefield and in naval warfare, hospital ships, the laws and customs of war and the protection of prisoners of war"

At the time, "total war" meant the civilians on both sides faced indiscriminate aerial bombing, including incendiary attacks, nuclear attacks, and assaults on centers of culture/churches/schools, etc.

A change in the Geneva Conventions, beginning in 1949 were the results from the uproar of the fire bombing of Dresden, nuclear attacks on Japan, and other indiscriminate carpet bombing during WW II.

Therefore, in answer to your question, there were no specific treaties or conventions broken AT THE TIME of the bombings and therefore it was not a war crime, these prohibitions all came after the war.

Answer 8

There was valid no military reason for the raids which did little to affect german morale and were upon targets with little or no industry. Greater dammage and loss of life was caused than in the bombings at Hiroshima and Nagasaki with far less reason. Was it a war crime? No because as we learned at Nurenberg war crimes are commited by the side that loses. Massacres such as that of polish officers, gulags, internment camps, guantanamo bay etc are necessary and justified when committed by the victors.

The allies have won the war and will go on to write history, buthow different history would have been if WE had written it! Josef Goebbels 1945

Answer 9

It's again one of these dark facts of martial history the winning side covers up with a mantle of humanity and necessity for winning just like the US bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Or the usage of poison gas of the British in WW1(it's been suggested that they probably used more chemical shells than the Germans) As in every case the version of history is the one of the victorers. were these attacks premeditated: yes. Does that constitute a crime I think that were to be up to a judge to decide whether the willful killing of 1000's of innocent civilians would be considered a crime. But as in many cases it's one of the less pretty cases in war the people responsable rather not mention or go out of their way to justify

Answer 10

possibly. The legal definition of war crime is a crime committed during wartime that is in violation of international agreements concerning the conventions of war, e.g. the mistreatment of prisoners or genocide i.e. the deliberate targeting of non-military units that cannot defend themselves. In total war this distinction can be difficult to make as whole cities can and will become targets because they support military units in the field. Dresden was a legitimate target in that it was a major transportation center-German troops before and after the bombing used Dresden’s rail hub to shift units around the front to counter allied advances into Germany. It also supported a corps headquarters unit, hospital depot and several aviation units involved in strategic defense duties.
Dresden was however declared an open city, and no military units were stationed or deployed within the city. No attempt was made to defend Dresden until after the attack had started, and those attempts could be stated as minimal. it has been said that Dresden was targeted as to give the soviet government an example of the military power of the west and that was the targeting decision as opposed to destroying German combat capabilities. If so it failed. The soviets had plenty of experience with wrecked cities and that kind of example would not influence them. It also may have hindered their advance by creating an impassable obstacle in the path of their armies. It is interesting to note that the chief of bomber command, Sir Harris was the sole commander-in-chief not made a peer in 1946. unfortunately such allied crimes as this(if they are indeed crimes) pale before what Hitler’s Germany accomplished. It is possible that the whole campaign was made in error. It was certainly not a necessity