Go vs Chess?

Question

Any comments about the game of "Go" from any chess grandmasters, and vice versa ? Which do you see as more artistic / deeper /more fullfiling . I have never played Go but it seems like an interesting game

Answer 1

Go is a very interesting game!

But LudoRex is absolutely right. While a chess program was able to defeat the human World Champion 10 years ago (after itself having been crushed by Garry Kasparov just a year earlier), no one has been able to make much headway in the way of programming for "Go".

Today, the chess program "Hydra" is just annihilating the human grandmasters who take it on, often without losing a single game.

There is a lot to learn just to become a decent "Go" player, so a good Go program can beat most beginning human players... and I stress, "beginning" human players...

Here's an interesting article comparing the two games... it's interesting to note that so many of us have enjoyed chess for many years because of it's "complexity". And yet, the article states:

"At least equally important is the fact that, unlike Go, Chess essentially lacks a deep strategic component! To those who may question this assertion, substantiation is provided by the following famous quote:

"Chess is 99% tactics." -- Richard Teichmann, (1868-1925), a German Grandmaster who for many years lived in England, and one of the strongest attacking players of all time."



Here's the link:

http://users.eniinternet.com/bradleym/Compare.html


The article points out that no one has been able to come up with a "Go" program that plays much beyond the level of an "advanced beginner". Elementary-School age children in countries that heavily play the game regularly trounce the best "Go" computer programs .... just amazing.

Because "Go" is so much more complex, strategically, than chess (because of the exponentially larger size of Go's trees of available moves), it's basically impossible for current programming techniques to come up with a program that "understands" the strategy of Go beyond an elementary level. In other words, the mathematical properties of Go are too complex to be put into the relatively simple formulas that produce a strong chess program.

The two games also differ in that chess is an hunt-for-red-met game played on a smaller board that is ideal for the power of the current generation of computers. Go is a game of surrounding territory, not of hunting for the same specific piece every time.

As interesting and complex as chess is, Go takes it to a whole new level.

It has been said that when a "Go" program can defeat the human champions, we'll have come much further along to actually understanding how "intelligence" works.

Just to give you an idea, chess has 400 possible board positions after each side makes one move. Go has 361 possible first moves for Black x 360 possible first moves for White = 129,960 possible positions after one move by each side, although symmetry effectively reduces this number to 32,490. Still, 32,490 vs. 400... wow. It takes a lot of computer to process all that, and thats just one move!

Looking at it further, Chess also basically has only EIGHT "strong" first moves for each side, making the effective # of first move positions only 64... Go has 32 "strong" Black first moves x 31 "strong" White replies for a total of 992 positions after one move of "strong" play by each side! No wonder we can't program a strong game.

Answer 2

First, I'm not a grandmaster at anything. I'm just an avid gamer. (Check out my profile at www.boardgamegeek.com under the pseudonym "alfonzos".) Go is the most complicated, purest abstract game known to man. At least with chess one can pretend that the gameboard is a battlefield. The object in Go is to surround the most territory and one plays until the opponent surrenders. If your opponent won't give up, you just keep playing. No wonder Go is rarely played in the Western world.
BTW, computer programers have yet to figure out how to write a winning Go program. Chess was conquered about a decade ago.

Answer 3

I find no Chess GMs deigning to say anything about a vastly different game.

I've played chess and become quite good. Lots of "chess" strategy made me good in every game - except go.

In chess capturing and hold the center is crucial. In go one must unlearn that lesson for the center is irrelevant.

Answer 4

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Answer 5

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Answer 6

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