What causes such pointless violence? What should the government do about it?

Question

LIVERPOOL, England -- an 11-year-old boy shot to death, allegedly by a hooded teenager on a BMX bicycle.
Rhys Jones, a cherubic-faced boy who liked playing tag and video games, was in a pub's parking lot kicking a soccer ball around with friends Wednesday when two youths rode by and fired shots.
Two youths -- 14 and 18 -- were arrested and freed on bail in the boy's killing, which came a week after a man in a nearby area confronted a gang of youths, who allegedly attacked his car, and was beaten so badly that he bled to death on his doorstep from a brain hemorrhage.

British law severely limits gun ownership by making it hard to get licenses. But illicit guns are available on the street, most of them smuggled from the Balkans and others modified collectors' weapons obtained within the country.

Gang members and rappers appeared on talk shows throughout the day Thursday, delving into reasons for Britain's gang violence. Some blamed an imported U.S. gun and street culture. Others pointed to unemployment, drugs and family breakdown.

Anthony Stevens, a former adviser to the European Commission on Community Safety, said youths have become desensitized to violence and see guns and knives as a means of solving problems.

"They are traumatized because of the violence they face every day and they don't have the skills to deal with it," Seshmi said. "It means young people are problem-solving using guns and knives."

The government has tried countless ways to tackle youth violence.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070823/boy_shot_070823/20070823?hub=World

Skeptic, I am Canadian. I am the last person you would ever find on the side of the gun lobby, that's for SURE.

Yes, kendrick. We are talking about England & Wales at the moment - there are cultural differences between Canada, the US and the UK. They need to be accounted for; you just can't ignore them and hope they go away; they're real:

"Government figures released this month said the number of youths prosecuted for firearms offenses increased 20 percent over the past five years.

That's a contrast to the trend in overall gun violence. Just 50 gun homicides occurred in England and Wales in the 12 months that ended last October, down from 75 for the previous year, according to the latest government statistics."
taken from the article I cited,

Answer 1

I really don't know. I don't yet know what to think of all this gang culture - again, it's a culture of buddies and peer pressure and showing off. "I'll support you unconditionally if you're with me. If you're not with me ... I'll probably shoot you."

Obviously Americans just have some kind of problem with killing each other with guns. As I understand, just about every house in Canada and several other peaceful countries has a gun in it, and people don't shoot and kill each other even one-quarter as often as here. Britain's among one of those countries where gun violence is very low. But I certainly wouldn't doubt that "imported" American (empty consumerist) "culture" is encouraging others to become just as gun-happy as we are.

I thought you'd be interested in this article on a state law, the 'shoot first' law, passed recently in Florida: http://www.alternet.org/story/59584/?page=1 . Really interesting. It argues that a 'shoot first' law like the one described reduces human nature and crime to a "good person vs. bad person" dichotomy, oversimplifying something that's actually far more complex.

You'll like this even better: "Operation Iraqi Free Gun": http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2007/7/11roeder.html . Because, in the words of the gun advocates, we need to give guns to all the *good people*, too, so they can "defend" themselves.

"Here's what I propose for Iraq: Distribute assault weapons to every Iraqi man, woman, and adolescent with the aptitude to crook a trigger finger. After all, the insurgents are a proportionately minuscule part of the overall population, and since the bad guys get hold of weapons anyway, why not put equalizers in the hands of law-abiding citizens? That'll make any mass murderer with a death wish think twice—unless he's got a death wish or something. And just think of the relief our soldiers will feel every time their patrol encounters a dozen Iraqis stroking AK-47s at a traffic light. They'll say, "Man, maybe Al Qaeda should fight us at home, because they sure don't stand a chance here."

I suppose some of the weapons we provide could be used against us. But we all know that guns don't kill people, people kill people. All a semiautomatic does is discharge 75 poor choices per minute. Remember that so-called assault-weapons ban we had? What happened there? Thugs merely adapted and replaced drive-by shootings with drive-by pillow smotherings, and no one was any safer."

LMFAO.

Answer 2

I think it was the National that did a report on this. The tagline was, "has the American obsession with guns and violence reached the UK?" Apparently there's some relationship here between video games and these little punk gangs. I'm surprised they didn't film it, or maybe they did. Much of the time these types do. They're like those kids who enjoy getting the homeless to fight each other for alcohol, and who beat the homeless for fun. Same ones who jump off skateboards onto concrete surfaces.
What's funny to these kids is bizarre. Inflicting pain is apparently hilarious--that includes psychological pain. They just don't seem to feel anything. But, in a world of chaos, it helps to not feel anything. I think when you create a society in which kids live in these different boxes--computer/tv/phone....--; do not interact with other people; are terrified of all the violence/potential violence, not to mention global warming and whether they even have a future, we can expect some people to be numb. It's sad that it's got to this point.

Answer 3

Interesting question.
In The Uk we have seen a rise in shooting incidents.
It is difficult to understand why except for the old addage,"When America sneezes we(The UK) catch the cold.
Years ago there were never any such incidents so it now begs the question why.
Globally young people have access to all forms of media stimuli.
Violent console games, DVDs and films do not help matters.
Politically over here we are taking this recent incident extremely seriously.
Probably the outcome will be stiffer penal sentences for offenders but as we already have the highest prison population in Europe this will not assist.
Pressure needs to be placed on the entertainment community regarding violence.
Schools need to seriously address citizenship issues via the curriculum, at present in the UK citizenship studies is considered to be a bit of a joke.
Politicians need to grasp the nettle and look at the youth of today and provide better leisure facilities for them.

Answer 4

Aren't you Canadian? There is no violence in Canada, so what's your concern?

But yes, the UK not only has a crime rate rising faster than the US, but it actually has a higher rate of burglaries and car thefts than the US.

I believe the most violent city in Western Europe is located in the UK.

Answer 5

I think that England does have a good handle on the gun problem when compared to the US. Are you really from England or are you paid by the huge gun lobby in the US?

A household that has a gun is 37 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. More guns is not the answer. Compare stats for gun deaths and injuries between the US and Canada.

In the scenarios you listed, I do not see how more guns would have solved the problem. If anything, some additional people may have been hurt.

When saying "fight fire with fire", remember that the fire department usually uses water.

Answer 6

People who feel helpless, like they have no chance of getting a better life, who are angry and can't do anything about the cause of their anger --- usually get to the point of pointless violence.

there are things that could help - youth clubs, volunteer work,
working for something really meaningful like Habitat for Humanity, could help a lot of these people see other options in life.

Answer 7

A narcissistic, material oriented, violent global community only need to look itself in the mirror. Our children, the world's children are merely a reflection of the ugly world in which they live. In other words, we reap what we sow.

Answer 8

The government (any country) needs to provide heavy time in prison for these types of crimes. People argue all the time that this would not serve as a deterrent. I say, one less scumbag on the streets is good for all of us.

Answer 9

Is the government expected to raise our children? The answer is no. The parents are. The government is not responsible for bad parenting and neither are rappers. I consider myself moderately liberal, too...but the line is drawn at the parent's feet.

The gov. does get to punish those kids. I hope they make them read books for years and years.

Answer 10

Better education against this, more policing, amnesty programs for children to turn in guns, MORE SPORTS, and youth programs...

To Skeptic: The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources ~ Einstein

The only reference to gun control with this statistic is "in a 1986 NEJM paper. Kellermann and associates claimed their "scientific research" proved that defending oneself or one's family with a firearm in the home is dangerous and counterproductive, claiming "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder." This erroneous assertion is what Dr. Edgar Suter, chairman of Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research (DIPR), has accurately termed Kellermann's "43 times fallacy" for gun ownership."[1 and only]

-------Also, here's the homicide rates per capita for all countries along with gun ownership stats... These statistics are not biased, and use all homicide rates and not just gun homicide rates(considers people killing with another weapon). Gun ownership countries aren't necessarily more violent.-----------------
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html

And firefighters do fight fire with fire, when water is not doing it.(forest fires)

--Object Irie: This whole thing was mainly in response to Skeptics answer... my answer to you was "Better education against this, more policing, amnesty programs for children to turn in guns, MORE SPORTS, and youth programs... "