is the surge really working?

Question

ive heard people say either that there is alot of progress and alot say there is absolutely none. The media paints a similar picture. I read an article in TIME that convinced me we must stay because the surge will work, and another in Newsweek that convinced me the opposite.

Please, if you don't have links to back up your answers (none from FOX news or wikipedia) please, im begging you, don't answer. (unless you say it a nice manner, no troop hating liberals garbage or nazi conservative fascist crap.)

Answer 1

All the key players tend to conclude it has been a political tactic rather than a military tactic.

Watch it the video link


In the link is quoted:
CentCom commander Gen. John Abizaid told Congress “I met with every divisional commander, General Casey, the corps commander, General Dempsey, we all talked together. And I said, in your professional opinion, if we were to bring in more American Troops now, does it add considerably to our ability to achieve success in Iraq? And they all said no.”


Taken from the website linked.

I don't think any retired military general says it is going to work, they all say the amount in the surge is insignificant for any long-term result.

Answer 2

The surge is not working and the Generals are saying so if by working you think or mean that there is a permanent solution of any kind happening right now in Iraq. We move our Military from region to region and the bad guys change there living quarters and tactics along with our changes.
In fact, their is more death and dying now than before the surge started among the Iraqi's. The society in Iraq is at the breaking point, and there is nothing America can do to change the situation.
You don't make a Society work with a Military Surge of temporary energy.
If we really want to try and resolve the mess we have caused by destroying the Iraq Government, we have to do what was recommended to Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld and Rice before the invasion started, we need a half of a million troops at least and start over by actually dominating the Iraq Borders and Streets of every important City in the Country, but it is to late for that now because we would have to hire and train a new Army and Marine Corp from the beginning of training, and for that we need to reinstate the draft so every ones 18 year old would be at risk.
Are you ready for that assignment Mom and Dad?

Answer 3

Well, I don't know if you count the op ed page of the NY Times as a back up for what I've read. I do know it's considered a liberal publication, but the op ed page does have a bit of both, but I do admit the column I read was from one of the more liberal columnist, but it certainly was not a bashing bit of garbage, and it was from one of the more educated columnist. His column, quite funny in it's own way did sort of indicate that he was confused as to the surge as there was supposed to be one in Feb, which he wasn't sure if it ever happened, and stated that this new one may have been the one scheduled for Feb, but that the one in Feb may actually have happened but may have been a bust, and maybe this was a new one and it was going better a bit so they were announcing it, but he wasn't sure as the White House wasn't being very open about what was going on. So, it does look like there was a surge, but as it isn't really being spoken about very much, except in right wing publications this does in fact leave me to believe that it wasn't one of the biggest of successes.
Ok, let's be real here, even if the surge did work, which could always be a possiblity, it really is the whole picture that you have to look at. We are so mired in this war, it is like the Viet Nam war, it is a total mess, it is at the point where it really can't be won. The best that we can do is to try and figure out a good exit strategy, a way to set up some kind of a government that can hold up for awhile at least, and we can fold up our tents and get the hell out of there.

Answer 4

From all that I've read, the reports I've seen (pro and con), the surge (really it's about the 3rd surge) has had some limited success.
I say limited because from the current and past generals reports, from some troop reports, from news reports, and from about a dozen Marines I personally know who have just returned from their 3rd tour in Baghdad.........there are limited pockets in and around Baghdad where our surge has been effective. This has been accomplished by saturating the areas with US troops on full time patrols. The problem is that we do not have enough troops or supplies and equipment to do this on a large scale. Several reports I've seen from generals claim we would need 4 to 5 times the number of troops currently there to accomplish anything close. The Marines I mentioned earlier have been stationed in an area NW of Baghdad and have seen little to no progress in almost 2 years of duty there, with heavy fighting at times, lots of civilian deaths, and a general distrust and suspicion of US troops and US intentions.

Answer 5

If we build a partial dam in a swift river or a incomplete sea wall during a hurricane, we can only divert some of the flow, and then maybe only temporarily. I won't go on with boring metaphors

Since you ask for links, here are two:

A too little, too late:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2007/070111-surge-too-late.htm

And what probably would have been the least painful resolution in Iraq as presented by Baker-Hamilton in the Iraq Study Group of December, 2006: As you know, a report that was totally dismissed by the current administration.
http://www.usip.org/isg/

.

Answer 6

Here's a real life experience for you, and a soldiers point of view

First off as someone that has been there, it helps out the morale when you know that your own country is behind. It also helps when your own media reports all the positive things your doing out there. Beleive me it hurts when guys like Harry Reid say we already lost the war, he should be tried for treason, it sends the wrong message to the troops, and makes our enemy stronger. If the enemy knows that the morale and our elected officals are caving in there gonna get bolder and stronger and up the amount attacks, with more road side bombings, suicide bombs, etc. because they feel the more violence they spead the weaker we will and break our will.

Military tactics, since most liberals who never sereved think they are well schooled HIPPIE in military tactics. We made mistakes in the begining no doubt, it's a differant kind of war and we underestimated the Terror cells in Iraq. We would drive them out, annd keep pushing and not leave a proper security force behind while we were pushing forward, as we were pushing forward and on the offensive the terrorists just pulled a 180 and moved back in while we were gone. The troop surge is putting a stop to that since we can maintain a proper security force and establish 360 degrees of security.

Also it's tough out there, in the begining since we weren't sure who was friend or foe, the enemy doesn't dress in Military uniform they dress in plain street clothes and our own ROE'S hurt us in the begining.

I know most Liberals who have never served seem to think they know all in Military tactics and the Iraq people, but news flash at the end of the day the good people of Iraq who have been ruled savagely by Saddam, want us to finish the job or at the very least make it place where they finally have some sort of civilized society.

Those sanctions were placed by the U..N. on Iraq when Saddam decide to invade his neighbor we call that the Gulf War, Saddam also broke 17 U.N Laws for 17 years, and not using profits from oil to feed his people. Get your fac ts straight, and Clinton bombed him in 98 during operation desert fox with the same intell Bush had WHEN WE WENT TO WAR
I am taking about a civilzed society were you don't have to worry about that the leader of your Country is gonna MUSTARD gass you like Saddam did, Also a civilzed leader who doesn't kill you if you speak out against the GOV, think about it pot head, your on here everyday spitting Anti-Bush, Anti-U.S. crap on this site all day long, now I ask you, if you were an Iraq under Saddam rule would you be able to do that, NO you would be dead. Also Saddam straved his people, bruttally murdered them. I got more examples if you need them.

Now if the terrorists drive us out and win and gain a whole country like they had in Afgan do you think there gonna treat the people of Iraq kindly, or rule with fear, and kill those who oppose them, just like the taliban did in Afagan,

Trust me, it would be a nightmare, it take from someone who has been there, if we just cut and ran right now, it would empower our enemies, bring instability to an already volatile region and Iran and Osama, would have another to use as Training centers, for terrorists, and a safe haven. Then when they go back on the offensive and bring the fight back on U.S. Soil, the left wing nuts will blame Bush for leaving early. Bush is in a no-win-situation

Answer 7

It is absolutely working. Plain citizens are stepping up, informing on the bad guys, actually beginning to defend their neighborhoods.

This is the real measure of a win, the people are own our side and helping themselves.

And you will NEVER hear this in the media, they are invested in our losing as are the Democrats.

Here is but one source
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,146880,00.html

it is funny that you require a source to support my point yet you feel it is fine for you to say what you please without a source. That seems hypocritical. That would make you a leftist or at least a democrat, doing what you have done is their trademark.

Answer 8

I think its working in the sense that its a deterrent for the insurgents to move freely across neighborhoods but I personally dont believe its achieving the goal that it was set up for, it was supposed to be that we get the troops in there to let the Iraqi government stabilize and start cooperating with each other but it didnt work because half of them walked out.

Answer 9

The general consensus is that the surge is working - a more pertinent question is whether the government in Iraq is working. That seems to be the big question presently - they have done little to nothing in stopping the sectarian violence.
It is obviously impossible to install any stability in a country that continues to put their sectarian hatred and blood lust above an independent and free Iraq.

Answer 10

The military gave similarly optimistic reports during Vietnam, and they almost always turned out to be inaccurate. Even if the surge does work, will it work long-term, after our men and women in uniform have departed? And in reference to your very last point, being anti-war and being a troop-hater are two very different things.