What's all this "no middle class" stuff?

Question

There is always a middle third of US households and its income and wealth continue to increase.

The "disappearing middle class" refers to the fact that some economists - many economists - consider classes in absolute terms - - typically the benchmarks are 2X and 5X the poverty level. If you're above 5X, you're considered "affluent" even if you consider yourself upper middle class. There has been an exodus from this group over the last quarter century but it's been more than 9:1 UPWARD.

There are more poor people but only in line with population growth, and the increase isn't because of a significant number of households moving down, it's because of a significant number of poor people moving HERE, from poor countries, legally and illegally.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news...
http://www.nytimes.com/specials/downsize...
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1988/05/art1...
http://www.frbsf.org/econrsrch/wklyltr/e...
http://www.dallasfed.org/fed/annual/1999...
http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/25/pf/recor...
http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/28/news/eco...
http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/28/news/eco...
http://www.heritage.org/research/labor/b...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6214022/site...

I'm the one POSTING facts.....

I see you believe the data isn't facts - that the facts are what you make up....

ron I believet the facts speak for themselves - if you choose not to believe them, you go right ahead.

avail - - - I didn't draw the line, and the point is wherever you draw the line, the migration has been upward.

Also avail, this is in terms of REAL income. That means inflation adjusted.

Myron the BLS is a bunch of America hating pinkos?

This is what I'm talking about - - - when there are mountains of data on a subject, and they clearly say one thing, and that thing is the opposite of a Lib assertion, the Lib, instead of changing the assertion, declares the facts to be invalid.

Household income is how economists do this, and they ALREADY make adjustments for kids etc.... the whole REASON they do it that way is to equalize those factors out.

Answer 1

those who scream that the middle class doesnt exist need to wake up shake off the booze or drugs and look around them, our standard of living is excellent and its due to a strong middle class

Answer 2

I guess it depends on how you define the middle class. By historic class definitions, all Americans are from the 'middle' class - there are no slaves, serfs or peasants; and no nobility, royalty or aristocracy in America.

Income isn't really a good measure, either. If you work for your income - whether it's just around the median, or well into six figures (or even millions), you're still middle class. You're in that group of skilled proffessionals who emerged way back in the middle ages, who were more prosperous than the peons, but without the social privilege of the aristocracy.

If you're genuinely poverty stricken, and/or part of a legally disadvantaged underclass (illegal aliens are about the only candidate, there), then a 'lower class' designation makes some sense.

If you don't need to work for your living - if your sheer wealth gives you a comfortable or better income, then, perhaps, you're upper class, though, really, you'd have to be from a family who's been in that situation for generations to be party of the de-facto aristocracy.

It /is/ true, though, that the poor have higher fertility than the middle class, and immigration (especially illegal immigration) can boost the numbers of the poor (though legal immigrants are more often middle class or quickly achieve that status) - so if there are 'more poor,' those are two places to look for proximate causation.

Answer 3

I think you're missing the point. People identify the Middle Class as a certain level of financial success (home ownership, access to medical care, and opportunities for college education, among other things.)

So, if the middle third can't afford those things, while they still are technical the Middle Class, it isn't the same as the Middle Class people identify with.

Answer 4

5x the poverty level is about 45K-60K a year, and that figure changes significantly if dependants are involved. 45-60K a year, isn't considered "affluent". "affluent" is even higher than 5X the 45-60k a year. Realistically, 300k a year is really only upper-middle class, not "affluent".
Considering the fact that many expenses are going up faster than income, I have to ask....Just what is your point again??

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10th link: 44 percent of U.S. households had before-tax incomes exceeding $50,000.
Ah… I wasn’t aware you wanted to play the ‘ol household income, rather than individual. If the average household of 5, has a gross income of 50,000, how much per individual is that??

Is this what your type calls a mountain of evidence?

Now that you have it inflation adjusted, now adjust it for cost of living which differs from region to region. isn't going to happen.

Answer 5

Your list of sources shows the problem - they're a bunch of America hating pinkos who lie in the hopes of getting people to vote for Democrats, and thereby mess up capitalism.

Those scales are outdated and irrelevant - just like socialists - and the middle class is truly measured by the economic comfort level of people in that class, not whole dollar numbers compared to someone else's whole dollar numbers.

Don't be hosed by the pinko pukes in the Mainstream News Media.

Answer 6

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Answer 7

You need to take into account minimum wage increases and their direct connection to the cost of living.

You see, union and minimum wage employees make up a minority of American workers, but work in the key areas (with minimum wage employees in the service industry mostly and union employees in the government positions and contracting positions) that make this country go round.

The majority of middle class Americans aren't union affiliated and make well over the minimum wage.

When the minimum wage is increased, only two classes of people are guaranteed a pay raise:

1) Those who make below the projected minimum wage.

2) Those who are unionized.

Those who make above the projected minimum wage and aren't unionized are at the mercy of their employers for a pay raise to balance the minimum wage increase.

Now...as businesses are forced to pay their employees more (being minimum wage or unionized), they need to produce that extra money somewhere. This is achieved by one of the following.

1) Lay off some of the current employees so you can pay the rest and maintain your own profit margin.

2) Keep all of your employees and give them the required pay raise and lower your profit margin.

3) Keep all of your employees and increase the costs of your goods and services so you maintain your current profit margin.

Majority of businesses pick (C), because they like to make money and don't want to have to cut workers - so they pass the buck to their customers, so to speak.

This is where the rising cost-of-living comes into effect, and where the minimum wage increases become a detriment to society instead of a boon.

Now...as the service industry and government/utility areas increase cost, we the people obviously have to pay for it. For those who got pay raises, this isn't an issue. They're getting paid more, and they're paying more for goods and services. They break even, essentially.

For those of us who aren't guaranteed a pay raise, this is an issue. We're making the same as before, but we're still paying the increased amount for goods and services.

This is why the middle class is disappearing. We're being assimilated into the poor category each and every time the minimum wage is increased and we aren't given a pay raise to compensate.

Lets use me for an example. My state just passed a minimum wage increase from $5.25/hour to $7.25/hour. When the minimum wage was $5.25/hour, I was making $9.90/hour as a skilled health care professional. Noticeably more that minimum wage.

In my state, the minimum wage is now $7.25/hour. And when it was increased, I was still making $9.90/hour. Much less difference between myself, as a skilled health care professional, and your average minimum wage worker.

Thankfully, I just got my annual performance evaluation and raise. I now make a whooping $10.20/hour.

Old minimum wage workers made $10,920/year.
They now make $15,080/year.
That is an increase of $4,160/year.

Previously, I made $20,592/year.
I now make $21,216/year.
That is an increase of $624/year.

Now...do you think that extra $624/year I make before taxes covers the COL increase that hit my area when our minimum wage increased by $4,160 in a seven month time frame?

I'm a perfect example of the disappearing middle class.

Answer 8

It is what the masters tell their parrots to say. I'm middle class, lower but still in the middle.

Answer 9

1/10 of your links actually work. that is barely enough to prove to me your name, let alone prove to me your opinion.

you really consider this a mountain of evidence??
well here, let me give you a mountain of evidence that refutes it, if that is what you call credible evidence:
http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugig
http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugih
http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugii
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http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugio
http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugin
http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugib
http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugif
http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugit
http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugia
http://www.msnbc.mso.y879879yuhb/oghiugi

Answer 10

Depends on what the definition of is is.