Is al-Sadr Right. Have We Lost In Iraq?

Question

Having watched all these guys on BBC2 inc the Americans saying we lost it all A360 says is we just keep on fighting on a no lose no win basis forever because we dont like their ideology ?

Before the invasion I caterogically said IInvading Iraq was a no win situation because they never had anything then and they still have nothing so rather than care, they dont care. And this is seen in the way they blow each other up. It sums it up. It is like fighting a drunk after closing time. There will be no profit. Even making a point of beating them up is not worth the effort because they dont actually care and they have nothing to lose except the sand - but they have plenty of that.

It says in todays papers that the Palace is under seige.

Answer 1

The Coalition was never in a position to win. You cannot defeat an enemy you cannot identify. America learnt that lesson in Vietnam and the UK in Northern Ireland.

Whether we pull out tomorrow or in 10 years time the terrorists/insurgents will still be there. The best case scenario will be that Iraq will descend into civil war until there is a final victor who will rule over the other religious sects as per Saddam Hussein's regime.

Answer 2

The people in the UK and I suspect in the USA are wearying of this war with no end in sight and our service personnel being killed on a daily basis. So in that respect the terrorists have won. As for our being there in Iraq, well no use crying over spilt milk!.
'JohnDoe' is very eloquent on the sins of the Europeans but forgets about the massacre of Native Americans,annexation of Hawaii and invasion and seizure of the Philippines and other colonial escapades of the American Government over the years.
There is nothing worse than self proclaimed virtue which Bush has in spades and it looks like 'JohnDoe' has a similar chain of thought.

Answer 3

I never understood what "we " were supposed to be fighting for in the first place.

To remove Saddam? OK, done. That was a success wasn't it?

But everything after that, well it all seems bit pointless. Millions of £s of taxpayers money wasted along with so many service men and women's lives and for what? Iraq is in a mess.

The Iraq people don't want the British forces there so I don't really see any point in remaining.

Answer 4

In the year of our lord 2005 the United States faces a challenge we remain reluctant to recognising in full and opportunities we fail to recognize at all. We are the greatest -and most virtuous- power in history. For now our existence is not at stake, although the lives of our citizens, the degree of our freedom and the well-being of our allies are at risk. There is no doubt that we will survive and triumph. But the decisions we make will determine the costs our enemies extract along the way. And we DO have enemies, old and new, mercilles and uncompromising, who hate us for our success, our freedom, and our power, as well as for the global transformations we inspire.
The United States is cast in the role of a doctor during a plague. No matter how hopless the situation may seem, the crisis demands our courage and perseverence. The risks we take are the only hope for avoiding a greater disaster for humanity. Despite the errors we have made in the middle east, the vitriol spit in our direction by the regions inhabitants isn't really aboutr us, its about them. The middle east has grown so inhumane and weak that it craves a "great satan" to explain away its ineptitude. The greatest power on earth will have to do. Indeed the middle east remains the world's sick civilization. Because of our virtuous efforts, Iraq may become the Middle Easts beacon of liberty. Or it may end as another Arab pyre. The Iraqi's, not us, will determine their ultimate fate. Their choices will shape a civilizations future.

Of course there is much more to the world than the struggling Muslim heartlands. Europe is in ther midst of an identity crisis of its own, haunted by a brutal past and insulted by Americas upstart success. The old powers are still far from forgiving us for supplanting them in the stretigic arena - or for our generosity toward them in the last century. Had we only been as cruel as europeans themselves in the wake of the twentieth century's great wars, we would be much better liked. The primary intellectual goal of Western european societies for the past half century has been to prove that the United States is as cruel and corrupt as they themselves have been. When your heritage is genocide, wars of agression, or cowardly surrender, the record of the United States can be hard to bear. The old powers cannot avoid measuring themselves against us, but the disparities they discover are so great that europes moral delinquents cannot resist comforting themselves with lies about our naivete, our purported clumsiness, our violence and our crudity ( without pausing to ask themselves how such pathetic mediocrities could have built the richest, most powerful, most desirable and exemplary society in history). Indeed when it comes to self examination, the heartlands of Europe are simply the middle east lite.

Answer 5

I always said that the Muslim extremists would say we lost if we ever pulled out. If we lost, then who has won. Certainly not them! Have they won a free country? No! They create the mess there when they have had the opportunity to accept the change to Iraq for the better. A majority of Iraq are fed up and want a better country but the only one who are making steps to do that are the coulition, the militants are just making it worse.

It was like when Israel stopped bombing Lebanon, Hamas said they were the reason Israel stopped. Even though Israel was wrong, i still think Hamas shouldnt have jumped on the bandwagon.

Answer 6

Lost what? This is not a competition! There will be no treaty signed!!! This isn't like anything you learned about in high school. OPEN UP YOUR BRAIN.

This is a brand new animal. No win. No loss. No ticker tape.... Just a fight that will ebb and flow on a level you can't define. Conflicting ideologies will always be with us.

Stop looking at this thing like a football game with a definite outcome. It is a tragic, violent, ugly fight that just needs to go away.

Answer 7

hitting iraq is about creating civil war in a country that should be one of the most wealthy on the planet , its about money , creating a base in the middle east . all they have done is create a war that cannot be won and create a neverending global enemy by giving the nutters more support every minute , total divide and rule .

Answer 8

Well, I don't think it matter who lost .... I think the point is that nobody has won. Nobody wins a war, not really. Especially an illegal war like that one Bush declared on Iraq.

Answer 9

They have oil. Our troops do not die for some high moral principle. They die because the UK and the USA need their oil. This war was lost before it started about 17 years ago and is turning into as big a debacle as Vietnam.

Answer 10

Who are "we"? In war, there are no winners, only losers. Iraqis no longer want foreign troops to govern them, but if those troops withdraw mayhem will follow. The troops are losing men and huge amounts of money without any acheivements. Iraqis are dying in their thousands. Can you see a winner anywhere?