Nigerian revolt in Thessaloniki ?

Question

A Nigerian selling fake illegal CDs in his effort to escape police control jumbs off the balcony of a Cafeteria and gets killed.
The community of Nigerean immigrants rouse, and supported by antiracist organisations destroys an entire neighbourhood, with the police abstaining from any arrests.
My questions:
1. Should criminal activities be legalized for immigrants to be able to find an occupation?
2. Should the police intervene or not in order to confront crime?
3. Which must be the reaction of civilians who suffer the consequences of illegal activities (theft, forgery, frod etc)?
4. Which must be the attitude of civilians who see their properties suffer damages of such riots?
5. Must law apply to Greeks but not to immigrants for charity or humanity reasons?

I have been robbed of my bag which contained personal and professional documents by a young immigrant. He has been arrested by the police and sent to court. Representatives of antiracist organisations appeared in Court to support him and press me to withdrow charges (I did not)...

Frank, you're absolutely right. Between my lines there's much more. I'm glad you observed...

Answer 1

things like that happens only in Greece!

its a saying "Dont bite the hand that feeds you "
but I think all immigrants in our country have misunderstood a point! This is a land that accepted you and gave you a new home, the opportunity of a new start in life, a start that you wouldn't be able to have in your own countries!
The least you can do is to RESPECT this and respect the laws, habits and habitats of the host country!
Dellarovere you know my answers to your questions! No one must be above law!
Our mistake is that we gave too much freedom-
does this happen to any other European country?
In a trip in Vienna, I was really shocked by the different races of people that I saw there - people from all over the world were living in this Austrian capital, having accepted the culture, the laws the life style of it-
I saw people of any kind, acting as the old Austrian lords, civilized, polite, quiet
and I wondered
why, why this isn't possible to my country as well?
why those who come here dare so easily to ignore our society and laws??
maybe we should be more careful, maybe we should be more strict or just maybe we should start from ourselves, to be the good examples-

Answer 2

I think you are doing the right thing. These types of things happen in the U.S., as well. People know that nobody wants to be labeled "racist", so they pretend that anyone who wants to take legal action against immigrant criminals are racist.

Some people may be racist and will be quick to arrest immigrants, even if there is little proof that they committed the crime, but many people truly are victims of a crime and they simply want justice.

1. No. Selling illegal merchandise is NOT "finding an occupation". If immigrants are above the law, then your nation will become a hub for drug lords, gangs, and all kinds of shady businesses.
2. If a crime is committed, then it's the police's duty to intervene regardless of who committed the crime.
3. It is up to each individual however, I don't think they should be pressured into dropping lawsuits against immigrants. Also, more serious crimes must be dealt with in court.
4. Those who suffer significant damage must also file suit and press charges. Otherwise, they'll have to pay for a lot of damages that they didn't cause.
5. Of course not. It is not "charity" or "humanity" when people are breaking the law. Perhaps Greece needs a better way to prepare immigrants to become part of Greek society, but elimminating laws for immigrants is not the answer.

Answer 3

The "nigerian revolt" is neither nigerian, nor revolt. Many of the protesters after the unfortunate death of Toni Ugunha, an immigrant who sold pirate CDs to survive were anarchists and leftists who tend to protest against the authorities on any possible opportunity. So the accident was just an excuse to smash windows, cars and public property while cursing the police.
The members of the Nigerian community, on the other hand, had every right to protest against police discrimination and brutality, since Greece is a free country.
It shouldn't be surprising that such protests - "rises" or "revolts" is a rather excessive interpretation - take place in Greece by immigrants. Wether you believe that this country is too tolerant with immigrants or too oppressive, a greek saying applies equally in both cases: με όποιον δάσκαλο καθίσεις, τέτοια γράμματα θα μάθεις (I don't know the english equivalent, so let me paraphrase it: the education you receive depends on the teacher's quallity, skills and character).
So when the immigrants in Greece see Greeks violating the country's laws and going about unpunished (eg: how many illegally built houses have been demolished lately? - and Greece is full of them, or how many racketeers are in prison), it's only natural to expect them to do the same. Or when immigrants witness police brutality and racist attitudes against Albanians, Georgians, Russians and Africans, why shouldn't they protest against it? The means they choose depend on the occasion: some of them smash cars and throw stones to police officers while others form protest groups, talk to the media and hire lawyers to represent them.

Answer 4

First of all most of those immigrants are illegal in Greece.
That means that they should not be here anyhow.

All the rest are secondary.
1.legalize the illegal actions of them ? why ? if it's bad for the greeks it's ok for them ? that's not even logical.
2.the police should do its job. many accuse the police for violence but it never cross their mind that a violent policeman is better than a policeman that cares only about his wage (and there are many like that)
3+4.there is the law and the court for every civilian, isnt that in our political system ?
5.humanity reasons ? why ? greeks aint human too ? or do you think that all greeks are rich.

Yes there is poverty and hunger in the world, but please tell me something, isn't there poverty and hunger in Greece also ? Do you take every poor and homeless to your home to feed him and put him to sleep ? Unless we do not think of Greece as our home and the other greeks as our brothers, which we don't and that's how we let the albanians and the others stay, they are cheaper... what a shame.

Let them found the way out in their countries, let them think that making 6 kids it's not a good idea if you are poor.
Overpopulation is the second biggest problem of the earth, after the pollution. Overpopulation is causing the illegal immigration and the illegal immigration is the cause for unemployment of greeks, for crime, for diseases and more.

From my experience with other societies I found out that especially the black and the muslims are claiming racism to take advantage of the people of a country.

If we don't send them away and keep them out, Greece and Europe will change forever for the worst.

If the albanian experience was a disaster, just wait to see what will happen when turkey will enter the eu and every kurd or turk from the east will come to work.

That's why all those greek heroes shied their blood for our freedom ? To become an international state with the fears and the complexes of islam ?

to frank: so, what you say is, greeks do bad things too, why we shall be angry when immigrants do them. the next time that an albanian steal something from you, go on and say, "there are greek thieves too, let's not be racist".

Answer 5

1. Should criminal activities be legalized for immigrants to be able to find an occupation?

The obvious answer to that would be; "No, of course not!". But it all depends on consequences... Selling fake cd's is a crime and it hurts record companies and such and it's bad... But mugging people is worse... If "they" are selling fake cd's instead of robbing people, why not let them... Have you never broken a rule? Did you ever have to break rules to survive? But of course neither is a solution to a much bigger problem...

2. Should the police intervene or not in order to confront crime?

What, in general? I don't understand the question, sorry.

3. Which must be the reaction of civilians who suffer the consequences of illegal activities (theft, forgery, frod etc)?

I would say report it to the police and try to stay calm.

4. Which must be the attitude of civilians who see their properties suffer damages of such riots?

Open and positive? What kind of answer are you looking for?

5. Must law apply to Greeks but not to immigrants for charity or humanity reasons?

Hmm, are you really asking questions or just making a point?

Answer 6

I heard about it the night it happened,I was in a taxi and the driver told us.He told us he saw the riots and was lucky enough to "escape" their mania.I think it's sad,since the community of african immigrants never caused any problems in the past and all the people from Thessaloniki thought very highly of them and had only the best things to say about them(at least the ones I have spoken to).This will probably change now.To answer your questions:
1.No,absolutely not!If we start legalizing small crimes,like selling illegal cd's where will it end?Everyone commiting a crime can start using this excuse and claim his crime isn't that big of a deal.
2.Yes,that is the job we are paying them to do.But I do think that the policemen in Greece recieve a very short education and training period.Two years isn't nearly enough and a 20 year old(that's the minimum age someone can have being a policeman,assuming he entered the police academy at the age of 18.right after school) isn't even close to being mature enough to carry a gun and have so much power over another human.I also think the psychological tests they conduct in order to see if someone should enter the police force are a joke,and a lot of unfit people end up having power they should never have.
3.Lawsuit,it's the only way to go.I can understand how some can become frustrated(cause most of the times the one who is responsible isn't even known to them or the police),but people can't take the law in their own hands,that can only lead to catastrophy and people shouldn't think that it isn't worth of reporting to the police cause that way no one will be caught and they will keep doing those things.
4.They should also sue.I can understand (in this case)that the immigrants were angry,but I can't understand why the belongings of innocent civilians should suffer from their rage.I would understand it if they went outside a policestation to protest and if they would damage police cars(not that I would justify it,butat least I would be albe to understand it).What happened now was wrong and I think those responsible should be caught and brought to justice.
5.No.We must all be equal under the law.Of course some facts should be taken under consideration(an immigrant stealing to feed his family is a "lighter" crime in my eyes than someone stealing for fun or because he wants to get richer than he already is) and there should be more ways to help some people becoming part of our society,better social help(I doubt there is any right now) and of course more understanding by ourselves,cause I know a lot of people taking advantage of the immigrants or not wanting to give them jobs because they are labeled as criminals.If our society was better at accepting those immigrants I think that the majority of them wouldn't turn to crime as only means of surviving(of course there would still be some that would chose the "easy way" as there are also Greeks who commit crimes.)Not all immigrants are criminals and not all criminals are immigrants,we should never forget that.

To those saying that the immigrants are "stealing" jobs from the Greek,let me remind you that the only reason why immigrants are doing those jobs is because Greek people think they are too good to do those jobs for the money the immigrants are willing to do them.Excuse me,but when you are poor you are poor,you don't look down to jobs you do whatever is necessery to earn money to support your family....what does the Greek do?Go and get a credit card and then gets a second one to pay the first one and so on...(many examples of this in my life).Half of Greece(or even more than half) lives on loans and they don't even care how they will make their payments...we buy and buy and buy and when it comes to paying we say we don't have money because we can't find jobs because the immigrants are stealing our jobs....please!!That's just putting your head in the sand.And if I get robbed I really don't care about the nationality of the one who'll rob me,I will think the same if it's a Greek or not...

Answer 7

1. Of course not, yet it seems to be done a lot in Greece. I can not understand how anyone can come to Greece illegally, stay and work there illegally on a small island and after 5 years get a visa to work and stay in Greece! Pls. explain!
2. They should but I got the impression victims have to do most of the work!
3. Of course it should be to report to police and sue but since this procedure is too long and too expensive, many people chose not to. Maybe the legal costs should be lowered!
4. Do they have a choice?
5. Ridiculous! But why do you allow so many boat people, refugees, illegal immigrants in and give them visas so easily?
Shouldn't they be put in special centers and be detained there?
And as Varny said, there is already too much poverty in Greece and instead of accepting immigrants doing cheap labour, priority should be given to Greeks and for them to have a decent life!

Answer 8

When did this happen? Lately? Which neighborhood? Here is my opinion based on the facts you have provided.......
1. No, they should not!!
2. Yes they should!!
3. Press charges.
4. Well, what would be the attitude of a reasonable person in
this situation?
5. Laws pertain to EVERYONE equally.

Now here is my question for you.....since when has the selling of illegal cd's become a concern of the police? I see it in Greece everywhere, all the time.......... But anyway, laws are meant for everyone living in the country. If a person is an immigrant, that is irrelevant.

Answer 9

Unfortunately the greeks citizens are not protected by the law, but i will not blame the police(which is mostly unable to do first by lack of experience, and then because every deputy of the 300 we feed needs his private policeman, what remains for the citizens?).I will blame the governments which not only they are unable to control the illegal immigration, but they encourage it too...
Since many years a friend of mine, greek from Istanbul who came to Greece in 1981 is trying to get the greek nationality, greek, married with family, doctor, and the government is replying the immigrants have priority...
A part from that the citizens in a small country of 11 millions are encouraging it, knowing the unemployment existing in Greece, and ''hitting ''especially the greeks, and they support the immigration(illegal especially)by offering them jobs,when people with families of 3, 4 children are under contracts who expire (because of the promises of the politicians)in the public sector,and with debts of rent even in the small shops of their neighbourhood...
I am not against the immigration when it is legal, dont forget that the greeks also went in different countries to creat a better future for their families..With one difference:They afforded all the negative conditions, and they worked so hard, under bad conditions also, priving themselves of simple things in order to survive in a foreign country and to raise up their children in more cruel societies...
I als supported the existence of the africans in Greece, because they are those who cause the less problem as immigrants...
But the tolerance has also its limits, when the local citizens and their properties are threatened on the altar of what the common sense calls''humanism''...And in reality it is not humanism when we see that many citizens of the country which wellcomes the foreign people contribute negatively in it, by exploiting them sometimes, by being the ''heads'' of some dirty jobs, by buying what it is illegally sold, or what it is cheaper in a market of a country where the manifactured work is cheaper....

Answer 10

As you know, in our country laws were put into practice, under conditions which everyone considers as right for himself.
That fact gives the chance:
- To thieves robbing
- To the immigrants to have illegal jobs
- To anti racist organizations support the illegals in the name of human rights..etc

As we are talking about illegal Cd's and music...
None reasonable in this world dances tango since it is played Rock 'n Roll music!
So, in my opinion, sth happens with the "music" we are playing...