What does "equality" mean to you?

Question

I often see many posters make the statement that men and women cannot be equal "because we are different."
Obviously we're different.
But, if we cannot be equal for this reason, then how can ANYONE be "equal"? We are ALL different, with different strengths, talents, and weaknesses.
So, is equality a complete fallacy, or is there another meaning besides the mathematical definition of "sameness"?
What about "social equality"? Does it, or should it exist?

Here is the definition for "social equality".

Steve_Sider-I think that what you are saying is pretty indicative of the basic misunderstanding I'm talking about. People confuse the mathematical meaning of the word equal with the term that implies "social equality", ya know, the one the founding fathers spoke of when they talked about all men (humans) being created equal and our
unalienable rights (I say "our" because I'm pretty sure you're American).
Social customs and dating rituals (holding doors, etc) have nothing to do with social equality.
Social equality simply means that we are ALL (men, women ,white, black, homosexual, etc.) deserving of equal rights, equal opportunity, and equal consideration (not equal outcome). That's it. It doesn't mean that "men and women are the same" or that ANY TWO PEOPLE are the same. It means that people should not be treated as if the are "worth less" because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=B6V&defl=en&q=define:Social+equality&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

O.k. THERE'S the definition for social equality. It didn't post the first time.

To sum up, when feminists (or black people, or our founding fathers) state that "We are all equal" they mean it in the sense of "social equality" not "we are the same as men", although, fundamentally, we ARE, in a sense...we are human.

EDIT--Steve, it may very well be that feminists are not communicating their ideas very well (with the general public). In fact, I think it's true. Feminism today exists largely in academia, and academia is generally unconcerned with what "the masses" think (i.e. intellectual snobbery). But I think this is a mistake on the part of modern feminism.
Anyway, my point is that the broader definition of social equality should remain separate from other gender issues. Otherwise, it leads to too much confusion about what "equal" means. So again, when the phrase "we're all equal" is used, it is (or should be) only used per the definition above.
And yes, my husband and I are the proud parents of a baby boy...and he's sooooo beautiful. (Seriously, this is the cutest kid ever! ; )

I Love Women--I don't think you're being serious...I'm going to chose to believe you're joking.

EDIT-Ah, Steve, I see now. Our whole argument is a matter of semantics. By "social equality" I MEAN political and economic equality, along with equal opportunity, of course. I *think* (correct me if I'm wrong) you thought I meant equality in social settings. This is not what I was referring to, but Websters is pretty close to what I mean.

Answer 1

Yes this is a very good question, if a very difficult one to answer.
The lack of a clear idea of equality between the genders is what is causing a lot of difficulty in feminism.
Every one seems to have their own idea of what it is to be equal between men and women. Some feminist realising the difficulties try to ignore gender differences or annihilate them completely. I am afraid that doesn't work.

Perhaps we could be equal in areas where gender doesn't come into it. But in most areas of life gender does come into it.
What does it mean for me. Equal opportunity. Bring up the disadvantaged whilst not putting down the advantaged.

Answer 2

A great question !!!

Equality that we aspire for is not a bed of roses!!!

What we have currently is the selective application based on gender differences and dtrengths and weaknesses.

It will take a real miracle in every man and woman to have an open mind and then only we can have real equality.

True equality is something based on the fact that we are humans rather than man or woman.

The day we talk of human rights instead of men or womens rights is when there would be a miracle.

Till then we will live in a world with an imbalance whther we care to admit it or not!!!

Answer 3

Good question. Unless a different definition is specified, the word equal means "=".

I think that the laws more than protect women's (and men's) "equality." From a public policy standpoint, women and men are at least "equal" in that women have as many (equal) opportunities than do men economically and politically.

However, I think feminists have created a huge problem for themselves (and have alienated most women) in insistently using the word "equality" in describing how they feel women should be *treated*, especially socially.

The first problem is that most women flat out reject feminism because they absolutely do not want to be treated equally to men in social situations, which feminism requires. (benevolent sexism)

Perhaps some feminists really want to be treated, socially, just like a man. However, in my experience, few women would say "yeah, treat me just like a man when we go out." Most want to be acknowledged as women, not have that fact ignored in deference to equality.

The second problem feminists have, in insisting on 100% "equality", is that it forces them into a hypocritical posture when they then ask for special laws, protections, and considerations for women only. To say that men and women are equal but only women need these particular protections and considerations, obviously, invalidates the equality argument.

Feminists should just drop the use of the word "equality" and replace it with fairness or non-discrimination, or whatever applies to the situation.

(I asked about this some time ago.)

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AnvvHWD9gC6Ees2iL1SpKcnty6IX?qid=20070719021924AAQ0AgW

EDIT:

I must respectfully disagree with you. However, let’s assume you are correct. If there is such a wide misunderstanding of something that is supposed to be so basic to the feminist theme, does this not indicate that it is being communicated very poorly?

How does your view explain the use of the word equality - politically and economically? Are feminists not asking for literal, absolute economic equality in the political and economic arenas?

You can't ask for equality politically, economically, and socially and use the word equality differently for each or for one.

By comparison, when civil rights activists ask for equality, they mean it literally, mathematically. So, for feminists to use the same word in a very similar context but expect a different understanding is quite a stretch.

Further, there are plenty feminists who do agree with my understanding, that treating women and men Unequally in social settings is considered sexist. They say, treat men and women with equal respect and consideration, no more, no less.

In fact, weren't you also in that camp?

What happened? Are you getting soft on us? I heard a rumor that you had a baby? If so, big congrats from the dad of two beautiful (if I do say so myself) little girls.


EDIT II:

You may also want to take issue with the Webster dictionary people who define feminism as: "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes."

Nowhere is there the suggestion that the "equality" related to politics and economics is to be understood differently than the social "equality".

EDIT III: Wendy, yes. Although I am not sure I follow you, someone asked specifically about social equality and I rambled on about it again. Social, political, and economic are treated separately by definition. So, social does not really cover the other two; it stands on its own and does include all social "rituals" and situations, such as dating.

Answer 4

Equality,and egality two of the same things.
Social equality means being equal in all aspects of our socialness.
Emotionally equality means never being unable to state how you feel.
Professional equality means all persons regardless of gender having the same rights.
Equality does exist, it is prevented from functioning by a mindset which deems that some are more equal than others.
In a Utopian society we could remove this mindset.
I doubt we ever will.

Answer 5

The meaning of equality is: "1. the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability 2. Mathematics. a statement that two quantities are equal; equation". We are all defnitely not equal according to this definition. For example, women outnumber men in the world and white men outnumber African Americans in the U.S. To make the quantity more equal we would have to bring over more Africans to America and export several thousands of women. This is of course unfeasable.

In today's world I think equality means equality in rights. I can vote and so can you. I can speak freely (though there are some limitations) and so can you. So the basic fundamental human rights must be given to everyone. No advantage should be given to one party, man or woman, that isn't given to the other. That is what I believe is meant by equality.

i ♥ ♀ is right, other than our rights we aren't equal. I don't think, outside of our rights, we need to be equal. If I prefer to eat pears for breakfast does that mean that everyone else should too? The answer of course is no but doing so would make us all more equal. Should everyone have surgery to make themselves shorter so that everyone is the same height? Probably not but that would again make us all more equal.

I also wonder how one would go about making men and women socially equal (assuming they are not). Women right now have all the Constitutional rights that a man does so no need to work there. But does social equality in access to education mean that, because there might be less women going to med school for example, there must be quotas on who is allowed in? If so, then you might be taking a freedom away from another student, by not allowing him/her to go to med school, and giving the option to someone else in order to make a level playing field. I'm not sure this is what is meant by 'equal access' but, if that is what is meant, then by what right does anyone have to do so?

I think I have asked this question on another question but it was probably ignored and that is what exactly is a right? The first three things mentioned in your definition (on the wikipedia site) have all been proclaimed rights inside the Constitution and the fourth one is an implied right. But what is equal "access to education, health care and other social securities" and where are they guaranteed in the Constitution? I think that, in order for people to keep fighting for these things, those claiming the search for social equality must continue must a) show that there are still clear social inequities that are the result of discrimination and not some other spurious variable and b) not cause social inequities while trying to rectify social inequities.

I think the definition you found of social equality is vague. I agree that everyone should have equal rights under the law, but it is unclear what the rest of the definition entails. Perhaps, if it was clearer there would be more support for it.

The good news is that we all have equal rights under the law (at least as far as I can see). That is what I mean when I say equality and I think that it was achieved already. Of course this isn't the case everywhere in the world (which I think should be changed) but it seems to be the case in the U.S.

EDIT:
I edited what I said because I didn't see what you were defining as social equality. It is also very late at night and I might add more later.

Answer 6

What a wonderful question. Religion is, of course, the form that one's worship takes. Thus there are thousands of forms. Religion includes a system of religious beliefs and practices. The object of the religion may be false gods or the true God. Hence, there is false religion and there is true. Religion can get very fancy or remain simple. In the former case, such as it is today. In the latter case, such as it was in the Garden of Eden. What then is worship to me? How do I worship? To worship means to obey. And to obey means to worship. The two are intimately connected; indeed, they are coterminous and cannot be separated. Specifically, to obey the Sovereign Lord God Jehovah of Armies is to worship Him. I do my imperfect best in this regard. I fall on my face and get back up to try and try again. In the Garden of Eden, so long as they obeyed Jehovah, Adam and Eve were worshiping him. No temple, no Mosaic Law, no meetings. Simply leave the tree of the knowledge of good and bad alone. Simple. The minute they disobeyed, they stopped worshiping Jehovah. Same with the nation of Israel. The minute they attempted to practice a syncretistic religion they stopped worshiping Jehovah. The minute they made the golden calf, they stopped. And on and on. To worship is to obey. To obey is to worship. Hannah J Paul

Answer 7

We can't be equal, unless of course, I get a 50% say in abortion.

Didn't think so.

Social equality is non-existent. Never heard of such a thing.

EDIT:
Ya I'm joking. Except for the part where I said some people are inferior to others because they have crappy genes and some are superior to others because they have better genes. I believe in eugenics.

Answer 8

It depends on whether one is interested in "equal opportunity" or "equal outcome".

Today, women have at least equal opportunity in every area and field except the military. They have superior rights in others, such as reproduction and employment.

The only way for social equality to exist is by mandating that men and women have the same OPPORTUNITY in every area, including reproduction and tax-payer funded health issues alongside acceptance of personal responsibility for the individual's bad choices.

I don't see this happening any time soon as the current demand by "society" is for equal outcomes and a severe lack of personal responsibility.

Answer 9

Darn good question.

I believe equality CAN happen, but it's probably not going to happen as long as the mindset reduces the value of one side or the other. For there to be equality, the old gender roles of man/woman needs to disappear and be reconstructed.

Don't know if it'll ever happen, but I think that's the only way.

Answer 10

Equality is relative to what you are talking about, only man made things can have it. Laws can have equal treatment, two cars may have equal value, two coins can be equal, an opinion can say something is equal.

Men and woman are not manmade.