How can people believe in evolution if they concede the following points?

Question

-Written human history does not exceed ~4-6 thousand years
-The Bible is a written account of history that is verifiable archeologically on many levels
-Carbon-14 present in coal and diamonds
-Potassium-Argon dating of objects of KNOWN dates off by hundreds of thousands and millions of years
-Dinosaur bones with soft-tissue; mummified dinosaurs
-Every major culture has a flood myth in their culture
-Living fossils have not fundamentally changed in tens of millions of years
-Cambrian Explosion contains almost every major phyla of animal, but Pre-Cambrian rocks contain no ancestors of diminishing complexity
-Not one true undisputed transitional fossil (so evolutionists label everything a transitional)
-No viable mechanism for the extremely large increase in functional genetic information as required by evolution(mutations, natural selection, polyploidy, gene duplication represent a loss, scrambling, or copying of information)
-Tightly bent rock strata and polystrate fossils

Answer 1

I absolutely agree with you!

Answer 2

I wish I didn't see a need for a point-by-point refutation this late...I'm tired and I wanna go to bed.

Anyway...
--"Written human history does not exceed ~4-6 thousand years"
Yes it does, we've found written histories dating back ten thousand years or more all over the place.

--"Carbon-14 present in coal and diamonds"
Well, yes, it would be, since coal and diamonds are made of carbon. This simply means that not all of the C14 has decayed.

--"Potassium-Argon dating of objects of KNOWN dates off by hundreds of thousands and millions of years."
K-Ar dating can't be used for anything less than 100,000 years old because it takes so long to decay (the half life is about 125 million years, IIRC). If an object has a known date, it would follow that this object was created in the last few thousand years, when K-Ar dating can't be used.

--"Dinosaur bones with soft-tissue; mummified dinosaurs"
So? Soft tissue fossilizes too, occasionally, it just isn't as likely.

--"Every major culture has a flood myth in their culture"
So what? None of these myths mention Noah, so it's a safe assumption that they didn't come from his family. Doesn't that imply, then, that these floods were witnessed by the survivors that the Bible says didn't exist? The Bible tells us no one but those on the ark survived the flood. If this is the case, why are there so many myths that don't mention a thing about the ark? It's not like they would've forgotten that particular detail.

--"Living fossils have not fundamentally changed in tens of millions of years"
What? Homo habilis (who looked a lot different from us, look it up) only lived about 2 million years ago, and there's been a pretty impressive change since then. 2 million is less than tens of millions.

--"Cambrian Explosion contains almost every major phyla of animal, but Pre-Cambrian rocks contain no ancestors of diminishing complexity"
I don't want to type all of this, go here: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC300.html

--Not one true undisputed transitional fossil (so evolutionists label everything a transitional)
We label everything a transitional because everything is a transitional. Every fossil is a step between two others (it had parents, and there's a decent chance it had kids). Every species is a step between two others. It's not like evolution occurs in well-defined steps.

--No viable mechanism for the extremely large increase in functional genetic information as required by evolution(mutations, natural selection, polyploidy, gene duplication represent a loss, scrambling, or copying of information)
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB102.html

--Tightly bent rock strata and polystrate fossils
Geologic processes do some spectacular things. Ever seen the ground in an earthquake zone?

Answer 3

I'll answer the ones I have a clue about ~ other people did great on others:

[Written human history does not exceed ~4-6 thousand years]
That's because the writing required for written history was only invented around 4 BCE. Other historical items have been dated beyond that though. China's unwritten history goes as far back as 10 BCE as does Australian Aboriginal and Native American.

[The Bible is a written account of history that is verifiable archeologically on many levels]
That is incorrect. There are a few archeological finds that confirm _some_ mentionables in the Bible but most evidence actually contradicts the Bible's take on history.

-Carbon-14 present in coal and diamonds

Coal is comprised of fossilised organic mass that would have consumed Carbon-14 from the air. As for diamonds, the carbon would have come from the same place as the coal, of course there's going to be carbon-14.

[Potassium-Argon dating of objects of KNOWN dates off by hundreds of thousands and millions of years]
Any error ratios are well known by the people that use these dating methods. There is no covering up of this information.

[Dinosaur bones with soft-tissue; mummified dinosaurs]
There have been no "mummified" dinosaurs found. The closest is the fossils with remaining partially-mineralised soft tissues of which there is little left. And anyway, this has been used to PROVE the connection between dinosaurs and birds through the types of proteins found.

[Every major culture has a flood myth in their culture]
So you're saying that every mythology is true? A lot of these were associated with sea monsters and such, should they be considered real aswell?

[Living fossils have not fundamentally changed in tens of millions of years]

There is no such thing as a living fossil, what you're talking about is species that have not changed very much since prehistoric times due to the lack of need to change. These creatures' environments have not changed and as such they have not needed to evolve and have not been subject to natural selection.

[Cambrian Explosion contains almost every major phyla of animal, but Pre-Cambrian rocks contain no ancestors of diminishing complexity]

I'll guess that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about there but then neither do I.

[Not one true undisputed transitional fossil (so evolutionists label everything a transitional)]
Technically, every fossil IS transitional as there is no goal with evolution except a form that can survive in the current environment. But anyway, there ARE lists of transitional fossils. You should look them up.

[No viable mechanism for the extremely large increase in functional genetic information as required by evolution(mutations, natural selection, polyploidy, gene duplication represent a loss, scrambling, or copying of information)]
That isn't true. Gene and even chromosome duplication and mutation is one method that HAS been observed.

[Tightly bent rock strata and polystrate fossils]
Without looking those up I don't have a clue what polystrate fossils are. I'm not sure where you're going with bent strata though

Answer 4

"Written human history does not exceed ~4-6 thousand years"
-of course it doesn't; art, writing, and other forms of organized communications are a relatively recent development in human evolution. We have cave paintings, hieroglyphics, and fossils to confirm humanity's earlier existence. The Chauvet cave painting is 30,000 years old, and in France. Considering that we originated somewhere in east Africa (by either the Bible or evolutionary theory), that's quite a feat.

"The Bible is a written account of history that is verifiable archeologically on many levels"
-If the Bible contains archaeological records of something that happened 8,000 years ago, then good for Moses - he can listen to the local storyteller tell the tale. The Bible can describe events that happened before it was written, but it did not make any predictions.

"Carbon-14 present in coal and diamonds"
- http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c14.html

"Potassium-Argon dating of objects of KNOWN dates off by hundreds of thousands and millions of years"
-That's why Carbon-14 is dominant. Besides, if the known date of the object is 2 billion years, then a few million years ain't making much of a difference.

"Dinosaur bones with soft-tissue; mummified dinosaurs"
-That's an observation, not an argument. It's not at all a stretch to say that some parts of a ligament, or some red blood cells, can survive inside a several-inches-thick bone for 65 million years.

"Every major culture has a flood myth in their culture"
-Most ancient cultures arose near major rivers (Indus, Nile, Huang He), and large floods were likely commonplace. And if they all have flood "myths", could their local religions be just as valid as Christianity?

"Living fossils have not fundamentally changed in tens of millions of years"
-You just made the concession that the earth must be tens of millions of years old. That aside, they're called "living fossils" because they don't change - because they have no natural predators, or are in such an advantageous evolutionary position that any mutations are not beneficial enough to merit a change.

"Cambrian Explosion contains almost every major phyla of animal, but Pre-Cambrian rocks contain no ancestors of diminishing complexity"
-The Cambrian explosion has been dated to approx. 550 mil. years ago. And it's called the "Cambrian explosion" because it was the time of a very rapid series of evolutionary changes.

"Not one true undisputed transitional fossil (so evolutionists label everything a transitional)"
-Osteolepis, Eusthenopteron, Panderichthys, Tulerpeton, Archeopteryx, Ichthyornis, Hyracotherium, Australopithecus, Ardipithecus... shall I go on? In any case, the number of fossils ever discovered is very small, and transitional fossils would make up a very small number of those fossils. The number we have now is amazing.

"No viable mechanism for the extremely large increase in functional genetic information as required by evolution(mutations, natural selection, polyploidy, gene duplication represent a loss, scrambling, or copying of information)"
-You just listed the mechanisms.

"Tightly bent rock strata and polystrate fossils"
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystrate_fossil#Geologists.27_Position

I'd love to come up with a nice, long list of similar questions against creationism, but why waste my time? The only answer I'd get was "you're possessed by Satan, find the Lord!"

Answer 5

-The Bible contains glaring inaccuracies.
-Carbon-14 is fossil fuels correlates with radiation levels in the surrounding rocks and only shows trace levels at best..
-Potassium-argon dating works on a billion year scale, so one million years is a 0.1% error.
-There are no mummified dinosaurs. Rare finds with fossilixed soft tissue (requiring demineralization) have been found.
-Evolution does not require change in form. Those "fundamentally" unchanged living fossils would not be confused for their ancient ancestors.
-There is an increase in complexity in the Precabrian strata
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils
-Gene duplication and mutation can result in novel genes. The process has been observed.
-Polystrate fossils indacate regoigs where periodic deposition events -- floods or mudslides partially buried trees which resumed growth.

Only your first point is accurate and has no bearing on the issue.

Answer 6

There is a disturbing trend of scientists, teachers, and students coming under attack for expressing support in the theory of intelligent design, or even just questioning evolution. The freedom of scientists, teachers, and students to question Darwin's theory, or to express alternative scientific hypothesis is coming under increasing attack by people that can only be called Darwinian fundamentalists.”

New Ben Stein Flick, Expelled, Blows the Whistle on Evolution.
Expelled is a disturbing new documentary that will shock anyone who thinks all scientists are free to follow the evidence wherever it may lead.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

Answer 7

How can people believe in evolution if they concede the following points?
Judged as a historical text as you are suggesting, rather than on the basis of belief, the bible is absolutely stuffed full of inconsistencies that is why there is Theological Debate… but that is not the point of this forum.

-Written human history does not exceed ~4-6 thousand years
History and science are not comparable in the way you suggest. It is not possible to draw any scientific conclusions from most written history as it is very its very nature based on opinion, not reasoned scientific experiment. Check out history 101; we must remember when consulting sources the possible biases that the individual who wrote them had. For example strongly held religious viewpoints.

-The Bible is a written account of history that is verifiable archeologically on many levels
As are written accounts of ‘Alexander the Great’ as is all history, somewhere along the line it is based in some fact, but we have to remember the above when interpreting it.

-Carbon-14 present in coal and diamonds
Another useful contribution of science to archaeology; unfortunately I am uncertain what relevance it has to your argument.

-Potassium-Argon dating of objects of KNOWN dates off by hundreds of thousands and millions of years
“Known” in the way that you use it seems to be a relative term.

-Dinosaur bones with soft-tissue; mummified dinosaurs
Very interesting: references would be nice so we can learn about it. Again, unfortunately I am uncertain what relevance it has to your argument.

-Every major culture has a flood myth in their culture
Definition of myth:
“1. Traditional story involving supernatural or imaginary persons and embodying popular ideas of natural or social phenomena. 2. widely held but false notion. 3. fictitious person, thing or idea.” Oxford English Dictionary.

Not sounding very scientific really given this is a discussion about biology. However, I have heard that earth scientists have some pretty sound scientific reasons for why major floods occurred. Certainly the geological evidence only supports narrow geographically focused floods, none have even come close to flooding the whole earth. Consider how much water there is on earth… not quite enough to flood all the continents.

-Living fossils have not fundamentally changed in tens of millions of years
Some fossils, for example the nautilus, have not changed precisely because of how evolution works: selective pressure on a population within an environment; if the environment doesn’t change and they aren’t out competed will they change? – no. This supports evolution – where are all those living ammonites by the way? - they lost out to the competition. Echinoids have significantly changed within the documented fossil record into what they are today. The largest reptile alive today is certainly nowhere near the size of those in the fossil record.

-Cambrian Explosion contains almost every major phyla of animal, but Pre-Cambrian rocks contain no ancestors of diminishing complexity
-Not one true undisputed transitional fossil (so evolutionists label everything a transitional)

Those who would like to read about evidence for evolution in the fossil record that deals with precisely this I would recommend:
Butterfield, N.J. (2007). "Macroevolution and microecology through deep time". Palaeontology 51 (1): 41-55.

In brief:
“Since Darwin's time, the fossil record has been pushed back to 3.5 billion years before the present. Most of these Precambrian fossils are microscopic bacteria or microfossils. However, macroscopic fossils are now known from the late Proterozoic. The Ediacaran biota (also called Vendian biota) dating from 575 million years ago collectively constitutes a richly diverse assembly of early multicellular eukaryotes.” Wikipedia Fossils

In addition it worth remembering that scientist don't take the fossil record as being in any way complete. You simply can’t read the fossil record like a gospel it is not a question of belief. Scientific questions are important:
Was the “explosion” real?
What does it tell us about the origin and possible evolution of animals?
What were its causes?

The bible simply doesn’t deal with because it wasn’t some important to people in the 382AD when ‘Pope Damasus I’ decided what was in and was out of the bible. Damasus is widely held to be more interested in the world affairs of men and is know to have had many biases. Given this is accepted by most Christians shouldn’t the question really be: why are you plucking the stick out evolutionary theory’s eye when there is a log in yours?

-No viable mechanism for the extremely large increase in functional genetic information as required by evolution(mutations, natural selection, polyploidy, gene duplication represent a loss, scrambling, or copying of information)
The mechanisms involved are listed in your question. But the basics:
Mutation:
“Mutations are permanent, transmissible changes to the genetic material (usually DNA or RNA) of a cell. Mutations can be caused by copying errors in the genetic material during cell division and by exposure to radiation, chemicals, or viruses, or can occur deliberately under cellular control during the processes such as meiosis or hypermutation. Mutations are considered the driving force of evolution, where less favorable (or deleterious) mutations are removed from the gene pool by natural selection, while more favorable (or beneficial) ones tend to accumulate. Neutral mutations do not affect the organism's chances of survival in its natural environment and can accumulate over time, which might result in what is known as punctuated equilibrium; the modern interpretation of classic evolutionary theory.” Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_evolution

also check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution


-Tightly bent rock strata and polystrate fossils
Geological Time is very very long. Active geology is demonstrated at active volcanoes or earth quakes. The Earth is between 5,000,000,000 and 4,500,000,000 years old that is a lot of time for movement of tectonic plates, formation or mountains, laying down and movement of fossil etc. Geology is not a simple subject it is highly complex.

Check this out it is really interesting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics

Answer 8

does the Bible mention carbon-14? has anyone seen a mummified dinosaur? fossils and mummies aren't the same thing, you know. was this mummified dinosaur found in your tightly bent rock strata or in your cornflakes?

Answer 9

1. Has nothing to do with evolution
2. Actually, no
3. has nothing to do with evolution, Hydrogen is present in water, what's you point?
4. actually, no
5. yes, what's your point
6. has nothing to do with evolution
7. some haven't
8. not true
9. false, many transitional fossils exist
10. false, natural selection, genetic drift, and gene flow
11. what's your point?

I concede some of your points. But none of them do anything to show that evolution is false or isn't happening.

Answer 10

we can believe in it because it makes a hell of alot more sense than some dude saying "let there be people" and adam appearing. and! the biblical account says that earth is only 6,000 years old, how can that be true when we have fossils millions of years old.

Answer 11

nice repackaging of common young earth cult beliefs.

some strange thoughts in those bullets. Am I to believe thats the bulk of your evidence for a young earth creation?

Evolutions argument is certainly far more convincing.

good luck!