First Guantanamo, then Abu Ghraib, now Policharki. Will U.S. human rights abuses never end?

Question

The United States has moved to Policharki Afghan detainees who have begun to challenge their confinement and treatment in American courts. The government claims that the prison is under the sovereign authority of Afghanistan and so lies outside U.S command—and beyond the reach of our courts. Yet these prisoners are being held in a special "national defense" wing built by our government and staffed by American jailers and interrogators. The Policharki transfers are the latest example of the Bush administration's long-running effort to evade judicial review of the thousands of detentions that have resulted from the war on terror.

From http://www.slate.com/id/2172334/ . Read the article; it's good.

Why is the Bush administration so Hell-bent on avoiding judicial oversight of its treatment of detainees? Could it be because it has something to hide?

fdj1: Your witty riposte, "Why don't you move to Pakistan already?", had me in stitches! Such cleverness! Such sophistication!

notadummyrat: If you don't understand something basic such as human rights, you might want to ask yourself why the Bush administration keeps scurrying away under any rock it can find to avoid the courts and the public knowing what it's up to. If this doesn't bother you, maybe you should consider the fat that American actions such as this are a great recruiting tool for jihadists.

namsaev: "Oh for the day of clandestine ops." Is that the sound of a bedwetting neocon chickenhawk coming up with a masturbation fantasy? You know, you can do more than just jerking off over issues of "Soldier of Fortune." You can actually sign up and serve!

B.Kevrokian: Nice comeback! Didn't Rush Limbaugh say something like this? You need to get an imagination. By the way, if you think that having electric shocks applied to your testicles, being sodomized by a soldier, or being forced to masturbate or perform other sexual acts are so innocuous, name your venue and I'll come over and give you a chance to experience them for yourself.

achon: I don't kiss the butt of anyone. Maybe you'd be better informed if you didn't spend all your time with your nose jammed up the behind of rightwing Rethuglicans.

Dierdrie: I was going to respond to your post, but you're just too far gone. Anybody who will say that an entire country bears the guilt for the actions of a few individuals, or that it doesn't matter whether someone is guilty or innocent, well, you need medication, not discussion.

By the way, since 15 of 19 hijackers in the 9/11 attacks were from Saudi Arabia, do you believe that the United States should attack Saudi Arabia?

I'm waiting...

Deirdrie: How can Americans consider themselves free when any American citizien can be arrested and held without trial for years? How can Americans consider themselves free when their communications via email and telephone are subject to surveillance? How can Americans consider themselves free when thugs like you say "your name will be remembered"?

Really, you necon Rethuglicans need to find a prostitute who specializes in bondage and discipline. All these fantasies about being "brutal" are a sign of deeply thwarted sexuality.

Answer 1

Listen carefully, please.

Whether these people are actually terrorists or not, they are NOT Americans. They were seized in a country that attacked us. We do not have to believe any nonsense about "innocent until proven guilty"; that doesn't apply here. They're guilty of being citizens of a nation that harbored Al-Qaeda, guilty of letting the Taliban treat women as chattel, guilty of kidnapping and murdering Christians.

We are at war. We are NOT here to be loved, we are here to win. Anything that advances our nation toward victory is something that has my full support. If lefties cry about that, that's good -- it'll be easy to track the whiners down after the war is over, and make them understand the costs of betraying America.

Slandering our leaders is also betraying America. "Judicial oversight" you call it. That's a nice name for activist judges getting in the way of our President doing what's necessary.

In war we need strength, determination and yes, brutality a lot more than we need human rights. And don't forget: America is the nation of freedom. Freedom therefore belongs to Americans, not to Afghanis or any other sorry foreigners.

In case you haven't heard, most countries in the world hate America. Why are you so very anxious to aid people who hate us?

Aren't you afraid that your name will be remembered? It will be.

RESPONSE TO COMMENTS:

I reiterate my statement that these people are guilty. Why? Because ordinary Americans are held to be responsible for the actions of our government. Just look at the beheadings in Iraq. Why should we treat them any differently from the way they treat us? We are NOT here to be loved, we are here to win.

And do I think the US should attack Saudi Arabia? Yes, I do. However, I'm willing to have faith that our President is saving it for later.

FURTHER RESPONSE:

Oh, please. Name-calling isn't going to score any points with me. Calling me a thug or saying that I have sexual issues is just childish. (And it's news to my husband.)

Of course America is free. America defines freedom. Not only because we're the first and still the only truly free country in the world, but because our military might allows us to set the definition of what that freedom means, anywhere in the world.

In the immortal words of Stephen Decatur, "Our country! May she always be right, but our country, right or wrong." Even if human rights are being abused here or elsewhere, we are still free in essence, because that's what this country is about. The thing is, with freedom comes a responsibility to use your freedom in ways that do not endanger it. Slandering our leaders does endanger our freedom.

Look, I realize that mistakes have been made. Everybody does it. But I am a patriot. I hope of course that my country and my President will always be right, but I will support them no matter what. If America were committing the worst imaginable atrocities; if the President were indeed lying and deceiving to the extent that so many here seem to think he is; if the light of democracy were truly going out in this country -- even if all these things were true, I would continue to support my country and my President because I am an American. My country, right or wrong. If America someday does walk down the path of evil, it is the duty of every true American to walk that path. Because it's the only country we've got, and America, even at its worst, is a greater and nobler place than anywhere else in this world at its sorry best. And that in the end is what our freedom means - the freedom to do what needs to be done even if it makes our name hated forever. As I said before, we're not here to be loved.

Answer 2

First, I'm not American. I'm Spanish, so sorry for my English.
Well, I think all those prisons are neccesary. Those prisoners may have very important information and it's very important to make them talk. Suspected terrorists can't have the same rights as current people because they are very dangerous. Those babes didn't try to rob a bank and kill 2 or 3 policemen. No. They are terrorists who would like to collapse with buildings full of people with a big bomb on the car. Really, I think they don't deserve mercy

Answer 3

it seems from the answers you got so far, people don't understand that these basic human rights are there for a good reason. some of these people who are held may and are Innocent. when we violate them then how would the world judge us? should they sympathize when we are a victim of terrorism, etc. did these kinds of attitude from our public and our policies helped the terrorists to justify and target us? it sure makes it more justifiable to kill these types of people. and they hope that such a people were and i am sure they were in the twin towers. every action has a reaction. we like to make enemies and when they retaliate we give them all the names we can and call them animals, etc. lets look into a mirror for a change!

Answer 4

If we had given them POW status we could hold them until Osama surrenders. But we wouldn't have been able to torture them.
Other than the 9/11 attack itself, the biggest autrocity of the war was in northern Afghanistan during the initial invasion. Northern Alliance troops under US supervision murdered 1,200 Afghan Prisoners by suffocating them in airtight containers. General Dotsum, who personally supervised the murders is the Defense Minister of our new Afghanistan.

Answer 5

Not until a majority of patriotic Americans stand up and say "We are a democracy and we will not support politicians who support torture."

Despite overwhelming evidence, the congress refuses to impeach Bush and Cheney for their utter disregard for the rule of law; yet the American public does nothing to demand this.

The majority of Americans no longer support truly American, constitutional values. Though the laws are in place for Americans to voice their opinions at the voting booth, they instead choose to stay away in droves.

So for now at least, the conservatives win because of public indifference; human rights abuses will go on.

Answer 6

I'm sure /accusations/ of human rights abuses will never end, no matter how trivial or false they may be.

There was nothing in those Abu Graib photos, for instance, that people in San Francisco don't pay $100/hour to have done to them on Saturday nights. Sure, when you're not paying or it, I'm sure it's no fun at all, but it was still as nothing compared to what happened behind the same walls under Sadam. But deposing Sadam was a terrible mistake.


In the meantime, mass rape and murder in Darfur just isn't a priority, compared to stopping non-existant koran flushing in Guantanamo.


Governments - all governments throughout history, and every government made up of human beings that could ever exist - do bad things. Some do much worse things than others. It's good that we are able to point out and deal with many of the wrongs our government does. We will never find all of them. We will never stop all of them. But at least the continuing process limits them.

But we should never lose perspective. Just because our government does some bad things, doesn't mean that much worse things being done elsewhere by others are justified. Just because we are not saints doesn't mean we can't stand up to people who are just shy of being monsters.

Answer 7

Its really horrible what the US continues to do to people in these wars. Americans seem not to comprehend what it is like to be detained for years with no indication why. The US has become a barbaric country full of vermin.

Answer 8

Cheney doesn't believe any laws apply to him. And Bush is his puppy dog.

So they do what they want. Hide what they want. Say what they want. Take what they want. Kill whom they want.

Criminals, liars and traitors, every last one of this administration.

But you'll see a lot of Republicans who aren't very logical and cannot see anything but what their leaders tell them to think.

And I love the real hardcore babies that tell others to move to Pakistan or something. Well, why don't you fascist chickenhawks recreate Nazi Germany and move there? Oh, I forget. That's what you're trying to do here.

Answer 9

Hey, we're not so bad. You can be abused in many prisons all over the world a lot worse then you would get abused in Gitmo Abu Ghraib, or Policharki. Were you this worried about how Saddam treated people HE didn't like?

Oh for the days of true clandestine ops. Where we didn't have to put up with your garbage. Not because it didn't happen. It's because YOU wouldn't even suspect it happened.

Answer 10

It may take years to put an end to all of them but in Jan. 2009 most of them will come to an end.