Is giving to the poor different from forcing everyone else to give to them via your program?

Question

Can we see how opposing the welfare state doesn't mean you hate poor people - doesn't even necessarily mean you don't want to give to poor people voluntarily?

Can we see how the government's just taking your property to "give" to one cause, whatever you might think of it, sets a precedent for the government's just taking it to do anything else it wants - like build bridges to nowhere?

Can we see how the government's enforcement of what some people see as a moral obligation to feed the poor sets a precedent for the government's enforcement of what other people think are our moral obligations, such as heterosexuality and certain religious beliefs?

pip - how far down the slippery slope do we have to go before you're convinced????

Please buy F.A. Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom" - or take it out from your local library (he won the Nobel Prize in Economics, they ought to have it), and read it!

But katy even if it were a majority, which clearly it isn't, do they have the right to enforce their morality on the minority?

Stiggo - "The current public assistance laws make a "welfare state" virtually impossible"

A matter of degree, and we're less of a welfare state than.... before 1996, when Clinton signed welfare reform. We're even less of a welfare state than... before 1981, since a lower proportion of our population needs such programs.

So why not support the shift in economic policies that has led to that?

Answer 1

It's absolutely two different things. Charity, through private, voluntary donations is the best thing about this country. You feel good about helping others, and you can make sure that your donations go to places where you believe it does the best good.

If I want to help people who are having trouble getting by, I choose a charity that 1) has responsible control over their finances, and 2) helps people with a hand up, not a hand out.

Giving an able-bodied, intelligent person free ride their entire life ruins them. It makes them feel like they are entitled to have things that others have earned. They are a pure leech on society.

However, if a charity helps someone by teaching them a skill so that they can earn their own way, if they only offer temporary hand-outs, if they force people to learn personal responsibility, then they get my donations.

I would never, ever, under any circumstances voluntarily give money to our current welfare program. The inner cities weren't the hell holes they are now before welfare told generation after generation that they have no chance to succeed.

Sad, isn't it?

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Answer 2

The welfare state is such an outmoded concept I'm surprised anyone still mentions it. Well, no, I'm not, really, when I consider the people who still do so. The current public assistance laws make a "welfare state" virtually impossible. Generational, or even long-term welfare, especially for those who are able to work, is no longer possible. And only the extremists think that being opposed to public assistance necessarily means you don't care for the poor. However, the end of public assistance would certainly lead to the possibility that private charities would not have the resources to pick up the slack, as there is nothing to show that people would voluntarily contribute. And, since there would be no way to prevent the abuses of the system if it was up to private organizations, why would that be better?

Making the leap from providing for citizens who are in need to saying the government can then spend for whatever it wants would be a very big leap indeed, one which would require a suspension of logic.

I can't imagine anyone being morally opposed to helping fellow citizens who are in need of help, while certainly not everyone shares the same religious beliefs. Some morals are universal, those that are not should not be imposed, and would not be simply because we follow those that are. After all, we have laws that say murder and theft are wrong, and we don't have laws tat say you shall not covet thy neighbor's wife.

Who said I don't support those economic policies? I love them. Those who can work, should work. Those who need help for a little while should get it.

Answer 3

I think the idea is, having systems in place to help the poor is a sort of insurance policy for everyone.

You never know what's around the corner. If, god forbid, something awful happened to you and you lost everything you had, you would probably hope your government to provided a safety net to help you get back on your feet.

And it COULD be you one day. It could be anyone.

It's like mandatory car insurance. Everyone has to have it because anyone could get into a crash, however much they think they won't.

So if you go around asking everyone whether they'd support it, people may selfishly say no, but these same people would want it to be there if they needed it. So the government says, let's just do it then. Fair enough.

Answer 4

Yes, but the funny thing is that most Republicans who don't support the concept of welfare, DO support Corporate Welfare, which, is the same thing.. taxing America and giving subsidies and tax breaks to profitable industries.

Answer 5

You're certainly entitled to that perspective. Americans spend a lot on taxes and we'd like to know where they're going and we'd like to have a say in how our tax money is being spent.
Personally, most people I know would rather spend money helping people learn to stand on their own two feet than spending money on a war we shouldn't be fighting. The money spent on welfare is a drop in the bucket compared to the money we're spending in Iraq.

It IS the majority that want this immoral war to be over. Most American citizens don't want our taxes being spent on this horrific war. Why is it ok for the current admin. to expect me to pay for it? I'd much rather spend those tax $$ here, in America, for health, education and taking care of our own. Our perceptions of "morality" are obviously different.

Answer 6

You won't convince me with a "slippery slope" argument... but I also don't believe I've ever said you guys don't care about the poor.... just that I think our methods do more good.

Answer 7

if you dont let THEM say who gets the money you arent playing according to their rules and you will die and burn.....only Dem leaders get to give out tax money