can conscious suicide ever be rationalized?

Question

I'm not talking about emotional breakdown suicide but rather a conscious rational choice the subject has made after a calm deliberation.(something like in the film The hours), or maybe you could even think of western methaphysics in which once the individual has "liberated" himself from this world and has achieved awareness of the methaphysical thruths about the world, this individual is allowed to "physically" leave before nature takes its inevatable course. Sometimes I think that people have submerged so much in the denial of our own mortality seeing suicide as an act that brings an effect that otherwise wouldn't had never ocurred (such as.. dieing). so, here I leave you with my oh-so-lovely question..

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Question Update: first to thank those who took the time to answer my question, and second to clarify some points I may have left loose.

by "conscious suicide" I meant, not ignited by depression or a psychotic breakdown, but rather a rational coherent decision, by which the person does not really feel that the act of suicide is not necessarily an act against the sanctity of life, or "the natural struggle to remain alive" by which most humans live their lives.

Also, my question is not directed to the euthanasia topic, nor the utalitarian act of suicide, but rather the act of suicide in its most
pure essense, maybe something like A. Camu would say, "in the matter of life, it all comes down to one subject, whether to comit suicide or not".

Thank you all.

Answer 1

y not, nothing has any meaning whatsoever in a cosmic sense anyway.

Answer 2

When you say rationalized, do you mean that there is a logical, coherent reason for the suicide that doesn't involve depression or psychosis? Or is it rationalization in light of the belief that suicide is wrong or immoral? Those are two very different things.

If a person is terminally ill, and suffers from chronic pain, choosing suicide is not denying mortality so much as it is choosing the moment.
Also, if a person is disabled and unable to provide for themselves, thus being a burden on others, suicide would be a logical choice to ease the burden on those others.
Jumping to a sure death rather than being crushed or burned is also a rational decision. Once again, it choosing one's death.

Suicide as a way to "transcend mortality" is usually a product of psychosis.

Whether or not suicide is acceptable from a moral standpoint is very culturally dependant. For example: the suicide bomber is incompatible with the ideals of western culture, yet is easily understood by a number of other cultures.

Answer 3

I don't know of a non-deterministic subjective decision that is coherent. Many people 'liberate' their self from this world in constructing incoherent theories whose subjects no human may sense. Is that conscious rational thought?

'Sometimes I think that people have submerged so much in the denial of our own mortality seeing suicide as an act that brings an effect that otherwise wouldn't had never ocurred (such as.. dieing). so, here I leave you with my oh-so-lovely question.'

Outside of the possibility for emotion, what is it that moves 'me', this ego in this body. The body or the ego in it.

The Will is positive, the Judgment is negative.

'Outline of Hegel's Phenomenology
INTRODUCTION
1. Our ordinary Knowing has before itself only the object which it knows, but does not at first make an object of itself, i.e., of the Knowing. But the whole which is extant in the act of knowing is not the object alone, but also the Ego that knows, and the relation of the Ego and the object to each other, i.e. Consciousness. '

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/ol/ol_phen.htm

Answer 4

In response to the additional details:

Yes, it can be rationalized on balance.

Let me explain. If we presume free will we can bypass issues of involuntary action. Firstly, if we take as a principle that all have the RIGHT to life, rather than the principle that killing is wrong, then we can make it a matter of choice whether a person chooses to "unclaim" or relinquish his/her right. Having the right to life entitles you to life and prohibits others from taking it away without your consent. After all existence is almost always better than non-existence, almost, but as I say below there are some cases where death is a mercy and leads to less suffering.

Rationalizing suicide would be very difficult in any circumstance and, I believe, impossible in most circumstances.

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Rationalized as what? Good or Evil?

If someone wants not to live any more then what is left to deliberate?

The consequences of death, suicidal or not, are always grave, but how does this link with your question?

I am sorry but your question is too ambiguous. You accept that conscious suicide can occur? You certainly affirm it in what you wrote, so what is left to rationalize?

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On the question of Euthanasia which may interest you:

Active voluntary euthanasia, which involves killing the patient with his/her consent can, in some cases serve the patient.
For example, a patient who has minimal prospect of living and a very low potential quality of life may choose to end his/her life in order to reduce suffering.

Reducing suffering is a noble pursuit, therefore Euthanasia is sometimes noble.

I hope that helps in answering some of your questions.

Answer 5

Not unless a person is dying, otherwise it's a form of depression, life is worth living no matter how bad it seems at certain times, we've all been there, especially in our teens, life can be cruel at times but there is medicine on the market that people can take that changes their whole outlook on life, I know because I have two people in my family who are on it and it helped them tremendously. Getting into something also helps, I know one person who started guitar lessons and that brought him out of his depression. Some people have a love interest problem and believe me that goes away in time you may not think so now but it does, and when you do meet that certain someone you'll look back at this time and thank God that you didn't do something that would cause the people that love you so much grief, good luck to you !!!!!!!!!

Answer 6

I think people who are in a great deal of pain and whose only path is a slow painful crawl to death can rationally choose suicide. Those who have achieved satori can terminate their lives without any external agent, but most choose to stay and try to free others. My experience with suicide is that most of them are trying to gain attention from or control over others. These are the ones that fail at the attempt. The ones who succeed are usually terminally depressed and in a way, I don't blame them. Without any outside intervention it is possible to become that depressed and feel that nothing is worth going on for. Then there's George Sanders, whose note simply said, "I was bored." People are never going to be comfortable with suicide because it challenges their reasons for living. In other words, if he really didn't feel life was worth it, how do I know mine is?

Answer 7

yes it can, for example - say there's a war and you and your friend/family are getting chased by some soldiers or something. Everyone flees in to a 1 way alley with no way of getting out, a grenade is thrown in the alley - someone can throw themselves on the grenade - which would kill them, but would save everyone else. If no one was to throw themselves on the grenade, everyone would die. Could the suicide of one person be justified? yes and no - yes because it saves the other people, no (morally) because it raises questions as to whether 1 life can be taken to spare several.

Answer 8

the bad thing about suicide is that you can't change you mind later