200 buried in church after Peru earthquake...and God was where?

Question

Ok, first off im going to say that I respect all religions and that I admire the faith that people have in their God, I mean that sincerely.

However I do not believe in God. I wish I did, I would love to think that their was a heaven where my passed loved ones went too, although I wouldnt imagine i would join them, this question alone would have the gates closed against me.......

I strongly believe in science because I have the facts and evidence to show me.

The aftermath of the earthquake in Peru left 200+ buried in a church in Pisco whilst they were waiting for a service. Not meant as an insult, however in the interest of debate I am interested in what religous believers make of this. If God wanted to give a sign let the church be the only building standing........

Crushed in the house of God?.........why would that be,

I fully understand Earthquakes, I have had connections to USGS for many years, this question is not about nature and science, it is about religion and why 200 people were crushed in a Church.

kimi - if God loved his so called wayward children, to leave a church standing with 200+ people inside unhurt, amongst such destruction, that would sure make a lot of people question their non beliefs...

jst - a great post.

Muklima, i dont think you have read my question properly, nor the poster before you. I am not pointing the finger at God, because I do not believe he exists. In the interest of debate, I am asking believers to explain to me how they feel about a church collapsing and crushing 200+ people who have their faith in God?

1-2informationalways - a well thought out answer, I respect your opinion, this is the kind of answer I was hoping for, its informative and explains why people still believe i guess.

des0ne - dont worry about grammar, you answer was great.

Answer 1

Hello Lexy.

This is an issue that I am in a constant state of confusion over.
I am sure of nothing except this, I strongly believe that there has to be more to life than what we can see, hear and prove.
I feel that it is so important that we strive in life to do the right thing, be it under the heading of Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc etc etc , the actual religion for me is not a big deal.
Trying to do the right thing is.
This is going to sound so mushy but kindness, respect, honesty, love, dignity, tolerance, understanding, empathy, oh the list goes on and on, these are the important things, so much more important and real for me than standing in a church singing and praying.
I also believe very strongly in that old saying "What goes around comes Around" for every good thing you do it re-visits you twice, for every Bad it re-visits you ten times.
I think there is an afterlife and depending on how you live this one defines your life to come.
Bit of an old Buddhist I guess.
Anyway my mate Lexy you have always sounded the kind of person it would be good to know so I am sure you will have a great life to come, in what ever form that takes.
Just one last thing, never forget, those that believe in nothing are prone to believing anything.
x

Answer 2

Um...let me at least try...
Lexy, the same thing happened when the tsunami hit south India a few years ago. Theres a very famous shrine dedicated to the Mother of Christ where people make pilgrimages throughout the year. When the tsumani struck people within the shrine premises were practically washed away as were the villages around.

It was Christmas time, and a few miles away, a bunch of parishioners decided to attend a service at the top of a hill as their Church on the plains below was under dispute by non-Chirstians. All those who attended were saved.

What could this tell us? It tells me that that tho' the Church is considered to be the house of God, the real Church is everywhere where people believe in Christ. So by the same yardstick no tragedy should ever take place for there are millions of people who believe fervently and yet suffer so much.

Why just Christians or believers in any faith, Lexy?
Children! Why do children suffer? Isn't it the same analogy?

Am certainly not wise enough to understand or explain this to you but all i can say is what my Grandma used to tell us.....
"Suffering is one of the ways God shines us in the furnace. He suffers with us & gives us the grace if we have the courage to open our hearts to Him."

Sounds too much like a sermon???!
I'm putting it badly but hey! remember God's own son died on the Cross...
Why would He let his own son suffer like that???
But just 'cos He did, millions today draw strength & grace from Him...
Keep the Faith, Lexy!
Its all we have...!
xxx

Answer 3

I understand not believing in God. What I can't understand is how you can be an atheist, but admire -- ADMIRE! -- those who believe in God. That makes no sense to me. What is admirable about faith? Do you admire those who believe in unicorns?

The really amazing thing about events like this is that they usually end up actually *strengthening* the faith of believers, who tend to fall in absolute love with the justifications they conjure up:

* God was "calling them home."

* God has a grand and benevolent plan for his faithful, and although our feeble minds perceive this as a tragedy, it is in reality a manifestation of God's perfect, pure, and loving design.

* God didn't do this. He only does the good stuff. This was Satan (or man.)

* Who are we to question the works of God?

Etc., etc., etc.

Or, sometimes, they'll find an uninjured infant within the rubble, and its discovery will be hailed as a miracle from God. I remember in the days following the 9/11 attacks, there were those faithful who pointed out that the number of occupants in the twin towers had been curiously low that morning -- given the fact that up to 50,000 people worked in those buildings -- and some of those believers suggested that God had somehow "saved" the people who, due to some circumstance or another, had not made it to work that day.

And that's the kind of thing that really steams me: using human disasters as *evidence* that God not only exists, but is a loving God. I didn't lose anyone close to me that day, but if I had I can only imagine the pure, white-hot rage that would have been mine at the suggestion that God would disturb the universe enough to give tens of thousands of people car trouble, or the flu, or make them miss the bus, or some other silliness in order to keep them from getting to those ill-fated towers, BUT COULDN'T (OR WOULDN'T) KEEP 19 PEOPLE FROM GETTING ON THOSE PLANES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And so it will be with this event. God is never, ever, ever wrong, or mean, or petty, or evil. But God is always there. Waiting for the moment when He can prove His awesome and unlimited power by protecting a baby under a rafter that fell "just so," or giving someone a flat tire on their way to work. His boundless love and mercy are always present. In a flower; in a cloud; in your child's leukemia. It's easy to see God in a flower or a cloud. It's a little more difficult to see his love in the face of a suffering child. But you must trust that it is there. That's what faith is all about.

Answer 4

Okay, so you plainly state that you do not believe in God. So why are you even asking this question. You are asking where he was and why he didn't save these people...but yet you don't believe in him...so how could he have been there if he doesn't even exist?

Now, from my end, I do not practice any particular religion anymore because of a variety of reasons. I do, however, have certain beliefs that mainly go along with the Christian ideals, so to speak.

Anyhow, you also mention that "If God wanted to give a sign let the church be the only building standing..."

Did it ever occur to you that he wasn't trying to give a sign just then? Not everything is a sign from God, you know.

Also, I firmly believe that when it is a person's time, it is their time. Yes, God could save anyone from anything, but there are a lot of times when it is just their time. And it can be more than one person or a whole group of people. I also believe that when it is a person's time, it is because God needs them to carry on some other work that is not here on this Earth.

Another poster said that she only chooses to believe what she can see - kind of a here and now type thing -- that is fine, but just because that is what you or her choose to believe, doesn't mean that it is the whole truth.

I respect that everyone believes different things and I do not expect people to believe the same as me, but it does not make them right. I am not saying I am right either. It is just what I believe.

I suppose the only way to truly solve this debate is to wait until it is our time to leave this life and we will find out how it really is...but the ones still left here will still not know until it is their time.

To specifically answer the title of this question "...and God was where?" I believe he was right there with those people welcoming them back with open arms!!!

Answer 5

No one will be able to answer this question fully. Just like no one can scientifically prove there is or isn't a God. It's all about if you have the ability to have faith or not. God doesn't curse people or harm anyone to be mean or evil. Man and Satan brought sin into this world. Before there was sin in the world there were no natural disasters or wars or pain, but because the Lord gave us free choice, we were able to choose sin and disobedience.
Bad things happen to good people. It's a fact of our corrupted life on this planet.

This is how I see it: If I could know why everything happened, what God was and how to describe Him, how He thought and what He thought, how He plans in advance but also gives us free will, then wouldn't that make me just as smart as Him? And if I was about to wrap my mind around the Creator of this universe, then how is he any better then me? Why should I believe in this God to save and know what's best for me if I could logically work Him out? That is faith.
Faith can't be explained

Answer 6

The course of our lives and the means to which they will end is set out for us before we even come into this world. Our purpose here is not to gain all the answers. Only God will ever know them all.
While here we are to accept God's plan for each of us in the world. Perhaps by their dying hundreds of thousands of people will come together in their faith, and through their faith will bring others closer to God. We are to be the "salt of the earth, the light of the world"
Those people did not die in God's eyes. Their souls have been raised to eternal LIFE in God's goodness and love. As horrible as it is for those of us looking at it from our end, it's a completely different situation from God's point of view.

It's a tragedy what has happened in Peru. God has already sent his sign, His name was Jesus Christ. Through Him, we are promised eternal life with our Father.The church in Peru was just a dirty detail of earthly life. God's concern leans more towards spritual life...Heaven.

And as for you thinking you're a bad person for posting...you just stop that,because you are not. You show you have a good heart that is obvious through your sorrow for the people in that church.
And never believe the gates would ever be closed against you. God invites questioning. Through doubt and questioning, our faith is strengthened time and time again. No matter how far you stray, God is always there, wanting you to return. All it takes is Faith....(which doesn't have to be separate from science!)

Answer 7

Not being completely familiar with many of the world's religions, I will aswer you from the point of view of what I believe should be the only answer from mine. But wait, I guess I don't have a religion myself, since I don't go to church, any church. And did go many years back, precisely because it was required of me, for it was a religious school I attended. And this only because the public schools in my district were infamous!

Now, having been brought up in the Christian religion, and having the Old Testament for one as a reference, I will say that I've chosen to believe God does not punish us. We punish ourselves with our own guilts, etc. And bring about for us ourselves, pain, etc. Do our own bad choices, most of the time. And regarding the horrific and sudden changes in weather, it is not God striking back at us. This is only part of the imperfections of our known world, the earth_and probably all the surrounding planets, stars, etc._simply because_and this is where our religious faith, dogma, or whatever comes in_it all has been set aside for complete doom. Why? Because God says so in the Bible. Why? Because of the first woman's original sin, of doing precisely what most of us are doing everyday, doubting.

And to the ones that believe that a new "everything" will be rebuilt, then yes it makes perfect sense. Why? Because God says so...And yes, I know there are thousands of inconsistencies in the Bible; Old and New Testament. But I believe in God, whether he's changed his mind over many things or not. Even if many interpret many of Jesus' teachings as if different or apart from what was said in the Old Testament.

And this is where I set myself apart as a believer and not precisely as a Religious person, much less belonging to any denomination, etc.: Whether God sent Jesus as Messiah. Whether a Messiah was to be sent in the manner of Jesus and not in a more human way_such as a human King for Israel_God really did not have to tell us anything. I believe he already told a lot to the Hebrews in the Old Testament. And in the end he will not be judging our actions based solely on the Old and New Testament_or any other book or laws he may have allowed anyone to write, in whatever time, culture, civilization, etc. God will probably not even judge us Himself; it will be our own actions, confessed by us to ourselves and to the whole of the Universe at the end of times!!!

Answer 8

Does death on earth matter to God? He set the whole thing up (since the fall, at least) with people dying every day. In some churches, the loss of a loved one isn't all bad for a believer--the deceaced went to a better place, and the only thing sad is that they aren't with you right now.

A lot of people think God should be stepping in and preventing pain wherever possible. For people who read the Bible, they see this is not God's style. We can guess at why God wants it that way, but we don't really know. To paraphrase an atheist philosopher, 'that which does not kill you, strengthens you'. But if even death doesn't diminish you, but rather strengthens you, you wouldn't always see death as tragedy. We'll miss the dead, but we won't be sorry for them! Perhaps these trials and tribulations on earth will prepare us for our work in heaven--we don't know all of God's plans for us.

Answer 9

You can't blame god.. People tend to put him on some kind of pedestal when really you can''t.. I mean, have you read the guy's books!? Damn. His first one he was all about killing people and just flat out being a straight up ******. and his second he didnt even put any effort into it. He just had a few primitive men write it for him.. Just picture it! they finish writing it and bring it to god for his aproval.
"God, we have finished the book! would you like to give it a once over before we put it into circulation?"
God replys "eh yeah whatever. let me see it"
a week later god comes down to earth with the book
"God, do you approve"?
God replys "eh its ok. good enough i guess. I didnt really like that Job part though... throw a unicorn in there and maybe a dinosaur and we'll call it a wrap"
now god has already proved his thirst for blood and laziness. Why would he come all the way down here to save some lives from an earth quake? he was probably sitting up there with a bowl of popcorn and the other 2000 gods saying something like "ooohh man! did you see that!? oh crap is the tivo on??"
In all reality This is my opinion and I appologize to anyone I may have just ticked off
It is horrible what happened and my heart goes out to everyone directly and indirectly involved ,but it happens. its just sad to me that people are only concerned about it when its alot of people. No one seems to give a damn when little suzy, who dreams of being a scientist and could very well discover the cure for cancer or AIDS, is riding her bike to school and his hit by a drunk driver. nobody cares when a homeless woman, who for years gave her knowlege wisdom only for spare change, is raped and stabbed in an ally. No body cares when its someone killing in the name of their god
once again.. sorry to anyone I offended and sorry if this may have just turned into ramblings riddled with grammar mistakes im just alittle upset now.
aslong as there is religion there will be no peace only war.

Answer 10

i think its a terrible thing that happened, and of course in a perfect world it shouldn't happen.

I'm not a big christian either, but i do believe there is a God. i think that sometimes things just happen that are out of everyones control and a lot of things we cant explain. i know that's horrible but there are so many terrible things that happen in life and i think Gods not to blame, but at the same time i dont know who is.

to a level i agree with you, but sometimes i think that theres no point in looking for blame or thinking about things too much. sometimes things just happen and we have to move on eventually.

live life to the full and believe what you wish, dont let others tell you your wrong because everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

sorry if i dont make sense lol i hope this helps !

good question :)

xoxoxo