Pitch count . . . really helps today’s pitchers? ? ?

Question

Back in the day, working a lot of innings was believed to help build strong arms. Starters like Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Mickey Lolich, Steve Carlton, Gaylord Perry were all known for their rubber arms and working a lot of innings. It didn’t seem pitchers had as many arm injuries then as compared with today’s pitchers.

Now complete games are rare. Many of today’s starters lose decisions to the bullpen. Therefore, another 300 game career winner seems very unlikely. Today, a starter with credit with 2 shutout games will lead the league. In the past, 6 or 7 shutout games were norm for the league leader.

As a fan, I am tired of games being dragged out to become 4 hour marathons, because of all the pitching changes. When are baseball managers and decision makers going to stop with all this pitch count non sense and allow their starters to finish what they started

Answer 1

The names you mentioned speak for themselves. Nobody worried about pitch count when those guys pitched, and look at their records. And there are many others who can be added to the group.

As long as the starting pitcher is effective, he should remain in there. The object is to win ball games, and if someone's doing that, why pull him? Nobody ever yanked Ryan, Gibson, or Lolich simply because they reached their pitch limit.

If a pitcher has a no-hitter or perfect game going, he certainly isn't going to be pulled, even though he has reached his so-called pitch limit. But if he has allowed a couple of hits, yet still very effective, he'll be taken out. It makes no sense at all.

Any starting pitcher at the major league level should be capable of pitching nine innings. If he cannot consistently do so, he doesn't belong, and is not earning his salary. The game situation should dictate if and when the pitcher is removed, not because some number concocted by the manager has been reached.

Answer 2

Actually, the last three 300 winners (Clemens, Maddox, and Glavine) all did it during this era of pitching where the starters go 6 or 7 innings and then they turn it over to a bullpen corp. However, it must be noted that those three pitchers also happen to be the three active leaders in games started.

That being said, there will be another 300 win pitcher (even if ESPN wants you to believe it won't happen ever again), it will just be several years from now. It will take a durable pitcher who can start a lot of games for a good team to be able to do it (such as in the case of Maddox and Glavine with the 1990's decade of Division titles with the Braves).

It is definitely more difficult for pitchers to dominate now, especially since the mound was lowered a few decades ago and the batters nowadays are bodybuilders. I agree with you though, baseball games really do drag on too long with all of the pitching changes.

Answer 3

Baseball history is more or less littered with great pitchers who blew out their arms from a high workload. The obvious example is Sandy Koufax, who was having all sorts of arm troubles in the mid-1960's, but who was asked to pitch complete games ... in SPRING TRAINING! Probably cost him four years of his career.

Going way back, Smokey Joe Wood was one of the best pitchers of his time ... only to blow out his arm, and be forced to come back as an outfielder.

Teams have millions of dollars invested in players, and the arm is a fragile device for baseball purposes. The research I've seen indicates that the problems usually come up early in a career; a 30-plus pitcher can handle a greater workload more than the youngster.

I think managers do overthink on pitching changes -- would you rather get beat with your best pitcher or your 10th? -- but it's hard not to be overprotective under the circumstances.

Answer 4

I tend to agree with you. So many times I have watched a pitcher throw 6 or 7 innings of great ball, only to be pulled by a "closer" to blow the game. I was a pitcher, and hated to come out, even when I was losing. I say..."If something is working, dont try to fix it" Just today I saw Mariano Rivera "blow" a save, after the yankees came back dramatically by a 3 run homer by Shelly Duncan. Prior to Rivera coming in, a rookie named Edwar Ramirez was pitching a great couple of innings, not allowing a runner. Torre pulled him and put in Mariano in the tenth, who proceeded to give up 3 runs. They should have stuck with Ramirez until he gave up a hit or two ! They also had Chamberlin warming up, in case Ramirez had trouble. By the way, The American League didnt even have a 20 game winner last year !

Answer 5

Higher pitch count = tired arm. Pitching with tired = strong risk of injury. If we want to keep the great pitchers we have today pitching well, they cant pitch a giant amount of pitches and go 9 innings game after game. It would lead to shorter careers, eventually leading to less wins anyways.

Answer 6

I agree with you. Managers are under so much pressure to keep pitchers healthy because of the salaries that these guys make, they are unwilling to take a chance which might end their own careers.

Answer 7

i think the level of baseball has gone up. the pitchers have to throw better pitches to get a average player out and very good pitches to a quality batter. i actually like seeing different pitchers in the game in changes to pace of the game.

Answer 8

I think between the height of the pitching mound and these bullshit pitch counts pitchers get hurt way more often, lower the mound and forget about pitch counts, don't need'em.