What do you think of the 12 Helpful Suggestions for Men Regarding Conduct in Feminist Spaces?

Question

The12 Helpful Suggestions for Men Regarding Conduct in Feminist Spaces (though it could be helpful to some women,too):
1. Realize it's not all about you. No, really! Shocked? This is because:

Corollary to Rule 1: Feminism is about women. Girls, ladies, females, grrrrlz, womyn, wimmin, whatever you call them, it's about us. It's for us, by us. Not how you feel harmed or threatened by feminism or women, or about how you are oppressed as a man. We know that patriarchy affects all people negatively - but this isn't the space to draw attention to how men suffer. I strongly encourage you to form your own men's group to discuss those issues.

2. Check your privilege. Yes, you have it. We all have different kinds of privilege, but you, as a man, have male privilege. Just because you don't feel privileged doesn't mean you don't have it. Recognizing that you have privilege does not mean that you have never suffered.

2 continued)
Being told to check your privilege is not a personal insult or attack. It also doesn't indicate that someone is trying to cop out of an argument or silence anybody - we just get tired of having to explain it constantly. See Rule 6 for more info.

Corollary to Rule 2: There is no such thing as "reverse sexism." Don't even think of trying that one on us. The fact that an individual man can be harmed by an individual woman does not override an entire misogynistic social system.

3. Listen. This would be really nice. Please respect our feelings and our experiences.

Corollary to Rule 3: When in doubt, shut the he*l up. If you're not sure you're "getting it" take a step back, resist the urge to hit that "respond" button, and try to think about what women are saying - before you act.

4. Resist the unconscious urge to dominate. It's what you've been programmed to do, but this is not the place for it. See Rule 1 and Corollary. If you find that you're posting more than the rest of the community combined, think about why. If you feel the need to constantly draw attention to your maleness, examine that dynamic - it's often a subconscious method of exercising control.

5. Try not to get defensive. Remember that women expressing frustration with the patriarchy is not a personal attack on you, and there's no need to respond as such. If you do so, you're likely to violate rules 1-5. Remember: If you're feeling attacked by feminism, it's probably a counter-attack.

6. Remember that it's not our job to educate you. Feminist communities shouldn't have to be constantly rehashing "feminism 101" due to the influx of new male members. You can read this, so you can read a book, or if that's too much to ask, you can do internet research. There are lots of ways to learn

6 continued) There are lots of ways to learn about basic feminist theory without sidetracking an entire community in the process. If you do the research and still have specific questions, then it's more appropriate to ask people for their opinions - but they still don't "owe" you anything.

7. If people are calling you a troll, there's probably a good reason for it. You don't have to purposefully be trolling to act like one. You can play devil's advocate to your heart's content and then log off the computer and not have to deal with these issues ever again. The rest of us can't do that. This is our reality, and we generally don't appreciate men treating issues that really affect us as some sort of witty intellectual exercise.

8. Don't try to be a knight in shining white armor. So you think you can singlehandedly save feminism with your unique insights?

9. Women are not a hive mind. Feminism is not The Borg. There is a wide range of diverse experiences and views within feminism. Just because one person on a feminist community agrees with you doesn't mean that we all will. Just because your feminist friend thinks one way doesn't mean we should all be expected to. Wide, sweeping generalizations and assumptions about feminism and women are not likely to win you any points.

Corollary to Rule 9: Do not use your presence or opinions to pit women against each other. Try to refrain from becoming the subject of discussion - that violates Rules 1, 3, and 4. Don't "divide and conquer."

10. Call out other men on sexist behavior. This is the best way to put theory into practice, and is a way to use your male privilege for good! If you're claiming to be a feminist on one board and then laughing when your friends make sexist jokes, we're obviously going to question your sincerity.

11. Understand that just because you call yourself a feminist doesn't mean that you're exempt from these suggestions. So you have an understanding of feminist theory - wonderful. So you want to fight the good fight - great. That doesn't give you the right to then go and ignore all the other suggestions because you "get it" and you're "one of the good ones."

12. Don't expect a pat on the back for following these suggestions. And don't whine if you don't feel you're receiving enough credit for acting like a decent human being. You shouldn't be behaving appropriately because you crave our stamp of approval - behaving appropriately because it's the respectful thing to do.
http://community.livejournal.com/feminist/1362470.html

btw: I don't think anyone considers GWS a feminist space. I just posted this info to give people some ideas of what feminists may find helpful for people to think about, before posting in a feminist space.

Of course, a few posters in GWS don't follow any of the guidelines; free speech and hate speech are both very much alive in this forum. But of course hateful behavior that is displayed by a few in GWS are not tolerated in many blogs today. Outside of Answers, blog owners learned how quickly a forum can be overrun with the immature and hateful.

There's a difference between free speech that is respecful and part of a discussion, and hate speech which promotes flame wars and anger and rage. Many bloggers won't put up with the type of childish and divisive behavior that is displayed in this forum.

I have to laugh how quickly the hateful have jumped in to complain that feminists want to shut down free speech-these are suggestions, not commandments. lol

Answer 1

that post on that LJ was indeed one of the best ever. However, I do have to agree with a previous poster that these rules apply to feminist spaces, and this is not one specifically.

to some of our esteemed trolls: asking you to listen (which i know is difficult), requesting privilege checks, and not taking on the responsibility of justifying feminism at every turn is not telling you to shut up and agree or be considered evil. The first one is a valid request and would do all of us some good. the second is just trying to remind you that because you are not female and/or feminist, then you dont have the same perspective. privilege checks just mean that before you respond harshly to something, you stop and think if you have any real experience in regards to this. The refusing to post feminism 101 every time you guys think you have a loophole in our ideologies (which you never bother to find out about ahead of time ANYWAY) is nothing more than a way to save us all some time.

I would recommend reading some of the responses to the post this originally came from. check her link. God knows, we may yet get to actually have intelligent discussions around here.

Answer 2

While there are some really good points in there about decent behavior in an internet forum, I think it's important to remember that this board is not exclusively a "feminist space."

The guidelines have the potential to help many users understand how a feminist may respond to their non-feminist posts, and in that sense, it is useful. But it comes across as a little bit arrogant in applying rules for "feminist spaces" to an open forum.

Answer 3

Your assertion that these are merely suggestions & not commandments is total BS, & you know it. Your language is clearly demanding & authoritarian, & your tone is demeaning & sexist.

Yea, I said it, so fu*king what. I suppose this is YOUR perception of "feminist power"???

Not very well researched & thought out, but then again, you are just a woman, so we can't expect any better. You really think feminism is about women? That just goes to show how ill-informed & ignorant you are.

I believe it's more to do with a political viewpoint & structure.

Yes, I DARED to speak my mind on this forum! I'm not a woman-hating troll, AND I'm not a suck-up to the bullies. So, where does this put me? OMG! I better get ready for the hate mail.

Answer 4

Rule 1) women are insane
Rule 2) NEVER forget rule 1

Answer 5

I agree with the rules with a few exceptions, particularly when the author gives a biased view of sexism and speaks of "programming." As long as she can leave the social construction garbage out of the discussion, however, I'll be cool with those.

The little diddy about not expecting any kind of thanks is a bit of a blow, of course, because any (potentially hateful) random Joe could essentially come in and be treated in the same way as a person who was honestly trying to add to discussion as a result of that.

Rules should be attractive things to follow, ESPECIALLY on the Internets™. Don't expect many people to follow them with tones and assumptions like that.

In all honesty they really are fair suggestions- just don't expect many people to give them any notice once they bring up a (relevant) point and get attacked for their ideas.

Here's a rule for feminists to remember for ALL time that will give you +1000 bonus points to ALL male posters:

Rule 1: When some misandrist insults a legitimate poster who has probably been hurt and is trying to control his frustrations, CALL HER OUT ON IT.

Answer 6

I hear you and with that i say good luck and hope you all work things out good night to you and best of wishes to you all.

guys , well if any look to this question, the main part of those 12 rules that's the main rule here is rule 1. read it , get to know it, and like me as of now live it. my final word on this topic and on WS as it should have been left in the first place and should never have had to be changed, leave these ladies in peace as they are asking.

ahhhh lol my my my to you who thumbs up me thanking that i support this, you are so wrong. i see these as a statement they are met to be, they are stating that all us men should sit and shut up, that this forum is not for us and we do not have a right to give a thought on any issues here in. it is utter bull ****.
yes i am a man and i have a thought on issues concerning women and the way they view us, but i am not rude or a bad guy yet you just managed to put us all into that group didn't you. if you wonder why i am so upset at this crap well turn the tables and try to really fill the pain then you will know.

if you wonder why i stared this question well it is simple, to draw attention to it as it needs to be seen for what it is and it shows just what every one who answers it fills we men should do here. or better put not be here.

to this i state as of now that gender and women's studies is not gender and at all it simply is women's studies and the whole gender part was a fluke that was met to try and silence the guys who was going on about it yet it failed in silencing them so now we are here to this.

Answer 7

Whoa! You did a fantastic job getting this on here. There are a lot of points I agree with completely, some I'm a little less thrilled about...but I think it is a good list for the trolls (although I doubt they could read that much) who do exactly as was stated in your post. Thank you so much for the time and effort this took--I'm going to read it more thoroughly and digest it a bit more.

Answer 8

That sounds quite reasonable. The same can go for some women, too.

Answer 9

Absolutely brilliant! I've never before felt quite so justified in having dealt roughly with blithering idiots.

Answer 10

Sounds like feminists want to curb free speech and can't handle any views opposing their ideology.

Heaven forbid they should have to backup what they preach. This shows that they can't.