What do you make of this quote about faith?

Question

"Faith is not equivalent to mere belief. Faith is the condition of ultimate confidence that we have the capacity to follow the path of doubt to its end." - Stephen Batchelor

Answer 1

This statement is a good and true statement. Most people try to twist this and analyze it in a religious context. That's where they fail to see the true meaning, because they are on the same path of doubt that ends the statement. Those that dont have faith are on this path of doubt and they can not base their decision and faith off of something they can not possibly know.

So...lets use it in another circumstance. Love, for instance.

You know your parents love you. You have complete and utter faith that your mother and father truely love you. There is more than just believing that they love you. Belief is the ability to base something on fact. So, "Faith is not equivalent to mere belief" is a correct statement.

I honestly believe that a man can not jump up from the ground and fly across the sky without the help of a machine. There is no way I could have "faith" that this will happen. I cant have faith that a man can fly. Its impossible. I do not believe it can possibly happen. There is no way to build a basis of faith on that.

Back to love...if you were in a situation that required your father to die for you because he loved you...do you think that he would? If someone was holding you hostage and they had your dad there and said..."We are either going to kill your daughter, or you can step in and we will kill you and your daughter is absolutely free to go." Im sure you have absolute faith that your father would step in and die for you. You would have ultimate confidence that your father would make that decision because you have faith in his love for you.

The part about the "path of doubt" is not for those who have the faith...its for those that doubt the outcome. The path of doubt in Mr. Batchlor's statement is a generic term covering anything that people would have doubt about. Those with faith have no doubts and are willing to walk down that path.

Someone from the outside looking at the situation with you and your father and him having to make a decision to give his life for yours would be on the same path toward the outcome. However, they would have doubts because they have NO CLUE about your past or the possibility of your father's love for you. YOU are the one that has the faith. You are willing to go down the path because you know your faith provides you with ultimate confidence in a given outcome. Since those who are not in the situation can not have faith that your father could possibly love you enough to die for you...they cant have faith. They could not have a condition where they have ultimate confidence in the decision your father is to make.

So, they will have doubts and are unable to follow the path of doubt to the end with a concrete ability to know the outcome.
Hence...they would have no faith.

Here, lets wrap it up like this...

I have a goal that I want to lose 35 pounds.

I believe I can lose it. It will just take a lot of hard work. Do I have faith that I can...nope.

My lack of faith is based upon my love for food and the fact that I have failed in the past. But, I still have a belief that if I really worked on it...that I could lose 35 pounds. There is still no faith there.

So...down my path of doubt to see if I can lose 35 pounds...there is no ultimate confidence that my faith of losing the weight is there. So...there is doubts.

Twist it back again to religion...

I believe there is a God.

I believe there is a Heaven.

Do I have faith that I will get to Heaven. No. There are doubts there because I do not know the outcome. I do not know if my life is good enough to be allowed into the kingdom of Heaven.

However, I have ultimate confidence that God is there, waiting for us all. There are no doubts about it.

Answer 2

Linz,
it looks like a contradiction to itself. The first sentence:

"Faith is not equivalent to mere belief." On a critical note this seems to balance, but what is missing is the discussion of what "belief" is supposed to be, i.e., something less than "Faith"? Then how does "Faith" evolve if not by the "belief" of something, anything (religious or not)?

Therefore, the first sentence where it "seems" to balance, I am left to ponder as to what "belief" is supposed to be.

Second sentence:

"Faith is the condition of ultimate confidence that we have the capacity to follow the path of doubt to its end."

"Faith is the condition of ultimate confidence..." The statement flows well and provides strength in the beginning; however "...that we have the capacity" (?) Does Mr. Batchelor mean "belief" with this word "capacity"? Or, does Mr. Batchelor mean "ability"? Finally, "...to follow the path of doubt to its end." I am confused, in the beginning of the sentence we had "confidence"; however, we end with "doubt to its end". In mathematical terms this "could" be expressed as many different variables; however, for me I see a positive (+ = "confidence") and a negative (- "doubt").

I therefore "make" that this is a conflicting statement. I clearly see "equivalent" (1st sentence) and "condition" (2nd sentence) as what the author (dare I say it) "believes" to be true, fine. As you know the word "is" creates the overall statement in both sentences, again I "make" this "is" a statement that could be worded differently to gain "credibility".

Thanks Linz, great question - for this YOU get a star and that "is" what I believe, because I have "faith" that I will not lie to you!

Best,
Gerry

Answer 3

It means that faith in something is the position that the idea will survive the test of skepticism. Whereas most think faith is something that one believes in that is exempt from the burden of proof, Batchelor is saying that true faith should subject itself to the same critical tests as other claims (the so-called "path of doubt") in the hopes that good evidence will substantiate the belief (the "end" of doubt).

Answer 4

that's a good definition...
i follow this path for now almost a year....i didn't think of putting it in words like that...but makes lots of sense for people meeting faith....
confidence, confidence...happy...
doubt, doubt...sad(?)...
following the path to its end... having all the capacity...(till when?)...ah yes, to its end...

Mr. Stephen Batchelor could also say where the end is....it's not bothering me....just wondering sometimes.....

Answer 5

It's completely accurate. I have heard many Christians say that if a person isn't Christian then they don't have faith. Like it is synonomous with their god. It's quite silly actually.

What this person is saying is that faith is not a belief in god. Faith is a sincere and unchangeable belief and commitment to anything that you cant really know.

Christians turly believe in Jesus and being saved. They can't really know until they are face to face with the man himself but they are certain that it will be, they know, they have faith that all of their questions will be answered and what will happen when they die. Faith.

Athiests truly believe that there is no god, that we are flesh and bone and when we die that is it. They can't really know if this is true and they never will because they will cease to exist when they die and there will be no one to ask. They are absolutely sure of this and will live their lives that way, that is the path that they are taking. Faith.

You cant really know, so you say, "this is what rings true for me, this is how I feel and believe and what makes sense to me." and we believe. It's not what we believe in that determines faith it is just that we believe.

Answer 6

Hmm..
That's certainly difficult.

I guess I interpret it as saying the difference between faith and "mere" belief is that with faith, not only do you believe, but you have felt doubt, carried that through, and come out still believing.

It infers to me that in true faith there is a special confidence that can be stronger than doubt.

Answer 7

It is obfuscatory at best and very good at demolishing one's ability to be clear-headed. And following "the path of doubt to its end" will result into a non-meaningful existence. This is the reason why for most people who live by faith are oftentimes the victims of self-generated existential angst --- for they have (almost) nothing concrete and definitive to rely on. This subverts their thinking, their emotions, their relationships with other people, and generally, their own life. Faith has nothing to do with having confidence; it has everything to do with creating an ILLUSION of confidence --- because if you waive through the fog of faith, there is nothing there at all.

Answer 8

What about the fact that faith is a belief without perfect knowledge.

For example, you have faith that the sun will rise in the morning. (It might not, but you are pretty sure and you have faith that it will.) Once the sun has risen, you don't need faith anymore since you know it has happened. You have that perfect knowledge.

Answer 9

The words Faith and doubt seem to be contradictions, don't they.
Is Faith a condition.
Is ultimate confidence Faith
If we have Faith ,are we in doubt.
I do believe that Faith and belief are not the same.
Faith---ultimate confidence -belief in our own capacity.

Answer 10

It means that although we may not be 100% sure that our faith is real or that it is right, we still believe in it so much that we are able to stand by it til the end, until we finaly get that one answer that proves or disproves it.