What have unions done for the US aside from extorting unreasonable salaries and benefits?

Question

There is no doubt that absent union leaders and their strong arm tactics the salaries and benefits of workers would not be so unrealistically high. The dying US auto industry is a prime example of the cost of this gluttony. They simply cannot keep up competitively because of horrendous costs brought on you unions.

Answer 1

The labor unions did a lot of good for workers 100 years ago. They became obsolete when organized crime took them over. The same can be said for defense contractors.

Answer 2

Besides things like Overtime compensation, Child Labor Laws, etc that any idiot should know. . .

Union workers can too be fired . . . you just have to have a legal reason to fire them. You can't get rid of someone just because you don't like them.

They make sure companies actually follow the rules! Labor Laws and OSHA don't mean squat unless somebody makes sure everybody plays by the rules - can you say that the government is capable and should have more of a role in that? I didn't think so; they've got their plate too full as it is. "Speak softly and carry a big stick" (~Pres. T.R) - the Union is a working man/woman's big stick and the threat of a strike supplants the need for force.

Pretty ignorant to place all the blame on the UAW for the Auto Industry troubles. There are so many factors that you're ignoring. How about looking at: trade agreements, management bloat, arrogance (if we build it, they will buy it), increasing supply costs, market (urbanization has lead to lower demand of vehicles), American buy-buy-buy consumer mentality is realizing you don't need a new car EVERY year, stupid investment decisions, etc. Remember these are Global Corporations, don't forget they've got their fingers in other countries as well. How does that influence the numbers?

To put things into perspective, here's a little math (oh no, a four letter word!): According to Forbes, the top 500 CEOs combined made $5.1 billion. That works out to more in one DAY then we make in a whole YEAR! (5.1b/500/365). I'll generously say they work 12 hours, 365 days a year (although we all know that isn't true); their pay works out to be $2,328.77 per HOUR! That's definitely more than a construction worker for a 6/10s paycheck (that includes the 20 hours of time & a half). I seriously doubt a CEO has EVER worked as hard as some of the proud Union men (and women) I know. I have yet seen a good justification of a CEO's million dollar salaries and golden parachutes. I think our country would do alright with a few more of them in prison for their insider trading, backdating stock options, and other fraudulent activities. Most of them have contracts that say they get same compensation no matter how the company is doing; they can run it into the ground and still make millions.

Answer 3

to start i will tell you about myself i am 22 i work in industail maintainance i am non union. i have not gone to collage. i make $13 an hour and feel that it is a fair wage for my current skills and work ethic. i am neither pro or anti union it is not the problem it is a side effect of the real problem

the first thing you must understaind is how unions came to be in the US. in the early years unions were illegal there where towns owned by companies and every person in that town worked for the company in some form or another. sounds great so far, a coal company owning its own town was very efficent. the problem was the working class could not survive on the wages giving to them and became poorer and poorer.

what is your definition of unreasonable salaries?

So, what has the unions done for us?i will list a few and give well know examples
safety (fine pariculate matter(black lung))
education (besides on the job training the unions often have schooling one must take)

you mention the us auto industry.
in 2003 i bought a pre owned 2001 ford focus. i did for 2 reasons it had good gas mileage and i being 6 ft 4in tall did not hit my head.
in '03 gas prices were around $1.80to $2.05 or so
i bought that car because i knew gas prices would go up
at that same time ford was pushing its truck lines in to max prodution. this is why the us auto market fell apart som badly

"....cost of this gluttony. They simply cannot keep up competitively because of horrendous costs brought on you unions."

cost of gluttony, i like this phares. i think it is a bit shallow of you to not look at the gluttony of CEO's at the same time.
in 1940's the averager CEO made 20 times the average worker
today the averager CEO makes 200 times the average worker. look at the latest report on wage increases the average worker's wage is increasing slower than the cost of living.

unions are not the problem but rather an indicator.
example: whole foods in maddison WI a whole foods store unionised. the CEO went to that store and realised that this one store was being mismanaged he changed the managers and with in a year the workers voted the union out.(whole food CEO by company rules can not make more that 20 time their average worker's wage)

if no one felt cheated by their bosses there would be no unions

Answer 4

You shouldn't point the finger so quickly at the unions for the demise of the auto industry. After all, the auto industry management negotiated those contracts. The management signed on the dotted line too.
Here's a glimpse into auto industry management. A person I know is in production management for GM. He shows up in the morning, tells the shop steward the quotas for the day, then takes off to bowling alley and bar. He spends the entire day bowling and drinking, then heads back to the production line just before quiting time. Not a bad job for $75,000 a year.

Answer 5

Unions have done great good: they helped get federal oversight into the food industry so we're no longer sold rancid meat. They helped end child labor. They got shorter work weeks and days so that people were not being used as slaves. They helped give us the minimum wage.

Your second point is equally short sighted. Unions are only one problem with the auto industry.

Hypocritical free trade laws make it cheaper for foreign companies to sell cars here than for domestic companies. Japan gives money for each vehicle exported, but we refuse to factor that in when considering tarriffs, so its automatically a few hundred bucks cheaper for them per car.

Anti-trust laws prohibit the Big Three to work together on things like emissions, while foreign companies can blatantly borrow research from one another and we allow them to reap the benefits of this. This causes significantly higher research costs for our companies.

Also we rebuilt all Japanese auto companies with state of the art equipment after WWII, then expected our own companies to modernize after 10 years of not making cars at all, and gave them no money to help out.

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Yes, unions are screwing things over, but that is because there is no balance. The people support the union because there is no one else. They cant fight the things business does to them without help. There are good unions, but the bad ones need to be overthrown--however you still cant blame them for problems created by poor gov't policy and poor corporate policy.

Answer 6

Yes monkey, close off your ears.

Unions implimented the 40 hour work week, I bet your used to that.

Unions work for the worker (or they should).

The dying US auto industry has alot of fat cats in the head office making record bonuses. Do you think that might have something to do with it?

Without unions we would have child labor, lower wages, and worse yet no benefits. Retirement alone is worth noting since Social Security (under the Replicans watch I might add) will not be there for many americans after the baby boomers all retire.

Answer 7

I will grant you that there are some unions that have not helped the US. But where would the coal workers or textile workers be without their unions? Starving or on the dole or working in unsafe environments. There are times when it becomes necessary for workers to band together to make corporations act to protect them or pay a living wage.

Answer 8

Unions have often been corrupt and unfair in their paractices... on the other hand, they have forced employers (and the government to pass legislation) to pay a fair minimum wage, created employee benefits that are today expected.

You can hate unions but I see a necessary evil for them. They do protect workers... I hate them too for the reasons you give but I can guarantee that without the history of them we would still have 15 year olds working in factories for peanuts.

Answer 9

There are also many cases of employers treating employees very badly prior to unions formed. There are good cases, and bad cases, but the overall influence is that the employees have some power with a union. The employers still have the majority of the power since they can hire and fire. But they now have accountability.

Answer 10

I heard estimates of 25 - 75 billion will be used to save Detroit. Instead of propping up a hopeless company like GM couldn't we take that money and develop a car that ran on alternative fuels ? This way we create new jobs and end our oil addiction. Unless GM starts from scratch no amount of money is going to save them. The money they pay to retired workers is the reason it costs them so much to operate. I say start over and let GM tank.

Answer 11

union workers make good money, have protection at work, have good benefits, and have a system sililair to the tenure offered at other jobs- you must do something very bad to get fired.

I have relatives who are union. they have great jobs. I'm very pro-union