Why don't some of you see how dangerous circumventing the constitution is for every American?

Question

Please bare with me here?

Under the Patriot Act how easy would it be for someone to set someone els up for whatever reason as an Extremist?

Let's say Mike was up for a promotion at work and so was Farid.

Mike really needs the promotion because he has a child who is suffering from an illness that is very costly.
So Mike decides he must figure out a way to make Farid a non-issue.
Mike decides to plant Jihadist and Extremist Al Qaeda materials in Farid's locker at work.
Mike calls the FBI. (remember the store clerk who alerted the FBI?)
They arrest Farid under suspicion of sympathezing with the enemy.
Under our Patriot Act Farid can be arrested without charge, without access to an attorney, family, or an advocate on his behalf!!
Farid can be held like this for years!!

You don't think this can happen??

This is but one example.

How many citizens are we willing to compromise??

Aside: Farid is 3rd generation Iranian born and bred in the U.S.of A.!!!
And a practicing Lutheran!!

Now is it wrong????

Answer 1

Here's the opposite side of that coin.

Achmed is a terrorist in a sleeper cell. He marries an American woman, has children, gets a job. He is at war with the US, under the fatwa declared by bin Laden in 1998.

He slips up, and is discovered by a co-worker.

But rather than being captured and treated as a prisoner of war, Kelly the Attorney General, under the new "Dissent is Patriotism" Act, merely indicts him, and he is released on bail awaiting trial.

Achmed, realizing the jig is up, straps on the suicide vest and blows up a bus killing 35 people.

Kelly's "dissent is patriotism" Act, unfortunately, does not believe that warriors in civilian clothes are conducting war against the United States. She has circumvented the Constitution by not allowing the US to conduct war against those who have declared war on the US.

Answer 2

Good example, and easily accomplished. And yes, in a country of 300 million people, and with consideration to all the possible 'cracks' that the "Patriot Act" creates and through which innocent people can fall... you have to assume that many have already been victimized, and that there will be many more to come.

My sense is, though, that the ultra-rights have absolutely no regard for that fact. They are scared, angry and vengeful... and not even as a response to anything in particular like 9/11, but as a way of life generally. If they couldn't focus on the threat of terrorism, then it would be blacks or Hispanics or the poor or people of difference worldviews or philosophical threats from other countries or something with-in their own ranks.

They're irrational and destructive. It's in harming others that they find they're own value.

Answer 3

Yes, I agree with you. The terrorists that tried to turn their cars into gasoline bombs in London and Glasgow were doctors and medical personnel. Who would suspect them? Surveillance can also be used politically. It can be used in many, many ways to twist the lives of Americans into so many knots that it is beyond most people's comprehension. If there are no warrants and oversight on these programs, its not a question of "if" it will be misused, but "when". Power corrupts absolutely. The power that has been given to our executive branch of government is unprecedented. There must be checks and balances of some sort, even in wartime especially since there is virtually no end to the "war on terror".

Answer 4

I don't know which answer is more ignorant:

Fred HH thinks Clinton should be in jail for perjury. What do you call it when the leader of a nation starts a war under a false pretense, authorizes massacres, then ADMITS the pretense was false, but doesn't stop from warring on nations who have things his pig-like country wants? In most places, including the UN, this is called a war criminal. IN America, this is called a President.

Which is the worse crime; lying about havign an extra-marital affair which is really none of any public's business, or starting a war for greed?

Common Sense seems to think that, since the complainant hasn't lost any liberties, everything's hunky dory. I guess fascism is ok as long as it's not creeping up your own door, or affecting people of your own race/tax bracket/peer group. This reminds me of tales of the Nazis "cleaning out" ethnic groups. No one complained, as long as it wasn't *their* ethnic group. Eventually, there was no one left to defend them, either.

Way to go. You people get the country you deserve by extension of your own ignorant opinions, misinformation, prejudices, xenophobia and fears.

Edit: I think I see something clearer now. Based on quite a few of the answers here, Americans truly are xenophobic people. It's chilling to realize they would kill or violate the human rights of even their own citizens if they weren't the right colour or religion. Truly horrifying, the real American "freedom".

Answer 5

Unfortunately you lost a lot of people with your example. A more effective example would have been two white Americans. It sounds preposterous, but the way the Patriot Act is written, anyone can be hauled away for virtually anything under the charge of terrorism or conspiring with the enemy. We are allowing a very scary precedent to be set.

Answer 6

Well said. But you are misinterpreting the motives of those who continue to support Bush's attempts to destroy the Constitution.

The neocons do NOT want a free country--except for themselves. I'm not putting words in their mouths--all you have to do is listen to know they want to end religious freedom, and they believe that ending the protections on civil liberty and civil rights will be directed only at groups they don't like--Muslims, etc.

Read the history of the rise of the Nazis--the patternis the same. Even the wording and slogans duplicate what the Nazis used. The only differenceis tha tthe American people have made it clear they are not going to bow to thes supporters of a would-be dictator.

Answer 7

injustice anywhere, threatens justice everywhere

I wish more people understood this. I would never agree with something unconstitutional just for a sense of security. people don't understand that they might not be being threatened but if someone else's liberty is 'legally' at stake, their's could be next.

Answer 8

What do you suggest we do? It's unlikely Americans are going to take to the streets for what to them is an abstract, minor infringement of their freedom. Few Americans even get calls from overseas and fewer yet say anything that would get the government's dander up. This is a matter that can wait for the 2008 election and God willing the people will turn out the Republicans.

Answer 9

Looking at the answers so far, I see no one seems capable of critical thinking.

What if it was Farid who framed Mike??? If you think that can't happen, you have your head in the sand. A "Muslim" could just as easily point the finger at YOU, dear readers!

It seems no one cares who is spied upon or held without the rights guaranteed by the Constitution, until they come for you! It could happen; it happened in Germany!

People, open your eyes!

Answer 10

Most peole are too caught up in day to day stuff (including dating, drugs, alcohol and/or buying things) and they haven't really looked into what's happening. That's what the powerful people behind our government want so that they can carry on with their own personal agenda. We all need to wake up and smell the coffee b/c America is really is danger. I'm glad that you, for one, are on the ball. Pursue your interest in politics.