Pretending the Cultural Belief System doesn't exist despite the evidence; igorance by design or misogyny?

Question

1. ‘The cultural gender belief system has influenced the ways in which difference and sameness has been studied in men and women. Early researchers’ conceptualizations of masculinity/femininity conformed to a bipolar view. The more contemporary plethora of research on masculinity/femininity and expressivity/instrumentality has created a body of knowledge that accepts these as coherent and measurable constructs. There are many definitions and instruments developed to measure them.’

2. The Bem Sex Role Inventory (Bem, 1974), are used to assess the degree to which men and women have internalized the gender stereotypic personality traits of agency–instrumentality (i.e., male stereotypic traits) and communion expressivity (i.e., female stereotypic traits). Engaging in gender-typed behaviors is assessed using the Sex Role Behavior Scale (SRBS; Orlofsky, 1981) and its short form companion (Orlofsky & O’Heron, 1987).

Con't from above:
The degree to which people have adopted traditional versus contemporary or liberal views about men, women, and the relationships between men and women is assessed using measures such as the Attitudes
Toward Women Scale (Spence & Helmreich, 
1978) and the Male Role Norms Scale (Thomp- 
son & Pleck, 1986; Thompson, Pleck, & Fer- 
rera, 1992). Other frequently used measures of 
gender-role socialization include the Gender 
Role Conflict Scale (GRCS; O’Neil, Helms, 
Gable, David, & Wrightsman, 1986)
the Masculine Gender Role Stress Scale (Eisler & Skidmore, 1987), and the Feminine Gender Role 
Stress Scale (Gillespie & Eisler, 1992; see 
Beere, 1990, for more examples of how gender- 
role socialization can be measured).

I posted a question about traditional masculinity at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AuIfHFlb_0hUhY_8hLDPKBbsy6IX?qid=20070806151420AApDNZO

Lo and behold, I am attacked with
‘This 'feminist science' that men are bad using assumptions, is why men say that 'hatred towards men' is what feminism is about…Quit wasting our time with man-hating assumptions…”

How can there be any effective communication between the genders if SO MANY PEOPLE refuse to look at the body of scientific evidence? They PRETEND IT DOESN’T EVEN EXIST! What causes this ‘ignorance by design’???

I CAN'T BELEEEEEVE THIS!

References (both are scholarly articles originally published in refereed scientific journals):
1. http://counselingoutfitters.com/Rees.htm
2. http://www.menshealth.org/code/PMM2005A.PDF

Uh, ya...the American Psychological Association ain't a good enough source for ya???
"Men who display high hostility and strong conformity to masculine gender roles--what the literature calls "gender role conflict" (GRC)--may cause distress to others, particularly their wives..."
Hostility appears to be positively correlated with strong conformity to masculine gender roles. You don't like the research results? You wanna make it up yourself - or WHAT?

Guess the ENTIRE AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION are 'man-hating'? How can this be?

I think I understand. You guys don't want to look too closely - you are afraid of what you will see. It all makes sense now.

LOL - it's probably been done. You can search the internet, as I did!

“The fact that you state that "hostility toward women, low self-esteem, anxiety/depression, homophobia, fear of intimacy" are masculine traits, makes you a man-hating sexist(or the people doing the study)…. You can hate men and blame them for your failures all you want though…”.

Here is is, lifted from the APA site VERBATIM:
Men who display high hostility and strong conformity to masculine gender roles--what the literature calls "gender role conflict" (GRC)--may cause distress to others, particularly their wives, a recent study indicates.
Past research on men suggests such conformity limits their emotional lives and has linked high GRC with lower self-esteem, increased anxiety and depression, hostility toward women, fear of intimacy, homophobia and reluctance to seek help
…men displaying hostility in the videotaped discussions scored high in GRC in their own and their wives' ratings, and wives with the most marital dissatisfaction and depression rated their husbands

con't from above
highest on GRC measures of restrictive emotionality, power, success, competition and restrictive affectionate behavior between men…
…men low in GRC were less hostile during marital interactions and their wives were less depressed and more satisfied with the marriage, indicating that men who have the courage to resist traditional masculinity are likely benefiting themselves and their spouse,"


Yes, that's fine too. They collect and disseminate information, amongst other things. The fact that is is published on their site means they stand behind it.

Answer 1

manbeast and kendrick: its perceptions of masculinity, not the actual being male. its the same dangerous cycle of gender expectations that feminism has been dismantling for women. no one in these studies says that being male=hostile and evil, it is equating things that are traditionally associated with masculinity, like hostility, to divorce rates. it does not say anywhere that men are naturally hostile, in fact one of the researchers cited, Bem, is forefront in identifying gender role expectations and deconstructing them. your reactions to this question are just proof of how much you have accepted these fairly arbitrary gender expectations and assume them to be natural. you have proven the point instead of refuting it. congrats.

edit: kendrick, what part of "associated with masculinity" are you not getting? read Sandra Bem's work on gender role expectations before you start mouthing off about what the research means. i do not deny that women can be hostile, but women are not expected to be hostile if they fit into the traditional concept of femininity. I wouldn't be offended if you said that the concept of femininity had been associated with mental inferiority because it is! the traditional concept of femininity assumes inferiority to males. thats half of my argument.

you sound quite intelligent, but i get the feeling that something here isn't quite making sense to you.

concepts of masculinity=/=male
concepts of femininity=/=female

therefore, don't take this all so personal and try reading the studies before assuming that the entire APA is misandrist.

and the communication training came with a 5 year college degree. i mentioned the intercultural communication training because thats where i encountered Sandra Bem and her research.

Answer 2

1) Anyone reading this, really needs to go back and read entire first post, because she's posting half-statements from previous post.

2) Yes, men are horrible. Masculinity = hostility toward women, low self-esteem, anxiety/depression, homophobia, fear of intimacy. (According to you), the entire American Psychological Association believes so, too.

We believe you, okay. We're on your side. Men are awful. Answer: Ignorance by Design. Men are all stupid. Will you shut up now!?

Edit: Eric M... you have to fully read the question. Yes, what you're saying is correct. Hostility will make bad marriages, from either gender. But the study and Object Ire, are equating masculinity with hostility. Are you agreeing that you're hostile because you're a man, and any divorce is your fault?

Edit: Bluestareyed: 1) The term 'Traditional Masculinity' is a subjective idea. Nothing quantifiable about hostility. Bottom line. There wasn't a single answer that agreed with her, even the hardcore feminists and even the best answer didn't agree with her article. They're assuming that masculinity=hostility. How would you respond if it stated 'femininity=physically/mentally retarded'? And I tried saying that femininity is not being a woman, but women are responsible for divorces because of being stupid? This article was about hostility, and hostility alone. The male gender was thrown in for bias, because the hostility of females weren't evaluated. You added to the hate. Congrats

2) Definition of masculinity: condition of male human: the state of being a man or boy

3)Communication training is not going to help you with logic. (email me for issues or compromise). Assuming A=B, and knowing that B=C, does not mean that A=C... you're still assuming A=C. Any assumptions thrown into the chain of equalities, makes the final product, an assumption.

Answer 3

Seems to me like this discussion has gotten off course i went back and read the 1st question and it appeared to me that "hostile men" make their wives want to leave them makes sense to me.

Think about it A guy comes home from work and starts raging at his wife about how there is no dinner isn't that your job etc. I would feel sorry for her if she has kids when both have to work. She is equally tired and is expected to cater to him with things he is capable of doing himself....If I were a woman I would want divorce having to deal with that behaviour day in and day out... I don't see why this is such a big deal.

Someone answered about:
A study of women taking on masculine roles (feminist)? When did feminists=masculine?

If thats the case then there should be a study about men taking feminine roles (masculists) Does masculist=feminine?

if the above equations are true where do misandrists and misogynists come into play?

Answer 4

Gender dichotomy and behavioral differences exist throughout the entire animal kingdom; this is simple biology and not unique to humanity- yet attempts to reduce it to mere socialization persist despite the evidence. Today's contemporary views about gender roles are tomorrow's traditional views, but the speed of light remains unchanged. The pancreas still produces insulin and testosterone still affects muscle development.

Certainly, belief systems about everything from aesthetics to zoology have arisen and changed over thousands of years of human history, and gender just happens to fall around the middle of the list, in the shadow of politics and religion.

Different cultures have very different belief systems, but all of them recognize that fire burns, thus parents prevent children from sticking their hands into open flame.

The roles of hunter & gatherer are simply specializations that the species adopted in order to survive. Since only women can bear children, males got duties for which their physiological differentiation makes them well-suited. Certainly arguments can be made that post-industrial societies have created environments wherein much of that is irrelevant, but evolution doesn't accelerate just because someone wrote a thesis. Natural selection continues...

Answer 5

The offerings are Intelligent layout OR Evolution, Intelligent layout could of path have us consider that a few legendary Intelligent being crafted all we see from clay vs evolution which indicates obviously how we and all residing creatures continuously evolve to greater adapt to neighborhood stipulations for extended survivability.

Answer 6

You posted a question about HOSTILITY AND traditional masculinity. Lumping the two together = man-hating.

EDIT: Where's the research showing hostility is strongly correlated with traditional masculinity? Because that study doesn't show it, it just lumps them together to show marital conflict.

How about they do a study on whether women trying to exhibit traditional masculine qualities + hostility (feminists) have trouble in their marriages, or never get married in the first place?

Incidentally the American Psychological Association didn't conduct the study, they were just reporting on it.