300 wins for a pithcher?

Question

why does everyone say glavine is the last one to be in the 300 win club

Answer 1

Because other than Randy Johnson (who may never pitch again), no one else is even close to getting to 300 wins. Most of the players with 200 wins or more are very well into their 40's and it's not likely that they'll have another 3 or 4 20 win seasons in their career.

The main reason that they believe that Glavine might be the last 300 game winner is due to the way that the game of baseball has evolved over the last 20 years. In today's game, pitchers are removed from games more often than they were 15-20 years ago. Now if you give up 3 runs in an inning, it's almost a given that you're getting pulled. Pitchers of the past pitched 20 complete games per year, we're lucky if we even see that many complete games per year from all the pitchers combined.

Now pitchers have pitch counts that they have to worry about, as well as being pulled in a later inning so that the manager can create a better matchup with an opposing hitter. Not to mention the insane number of times that a pitcher who could get a win is denied because their bullpen blew a late lead.

I would be very surprised if I ever see another pitcher (With the exception of Randy Johnson) reach the 300 win plateau. And I'm in my mid 20's.

Answer 2

By today's standards, it is harder to do than ever because baseball has been shortened due to the effectiveness of 7,8, and 9th inning pitchers. In the old days baseball teams may have 1 or 2 good relievers, and they threw for 3+ innings. Tony La Rusa changed this with the wide-spread use of using the bullpen to more effectivly end games for the opposition. With this you have a smaller window for a pitcher to garner a victory -- as a complete game would surely merit an outcome. Add the addition of a 5th starter to a rotation and you have the best pitchers pitching and only receiving about 15 wins a season. Add up the numbers and a pitcher would have to pitch a HEALTY 20 years to equal a career total of 300 victories. The average number of starts for a pitcher today is 36, a pithcer would have to win roughly half of every start (let alone decision) to maintain that pace. Along with injury (a major factor) you also have the career struggles of youth and the downfall of old-age. So a good young pitcher may take 3 or 4 years to maintain a 15+ season average. Then take the downfall, around 35-38 and you have less stamina and lower velocity to the plate. There is a reason that the best pitchers in basesball history don't have 300. Just ask Sandy Kofax, who barely made it past 200. He retired in his early 30s and it took him about 4 years before he was an All-Star. Pedro Martinez is another example of someone who had the numbers until injury set in.

Glavine's accomplishment may not be the last 300 victory ever (I think it is), but Randy Johnson will have to play more than 2 seasons and he's already on his last legs, he's already won a championship, and he's already got a spot waiting for him in the HOF, what more will this do to his resume. I think he needs to call it quits at 43. After him I cannot see anyone else eclipising the mark for at least 10 years.

With the current trend of pitching I find it very difficult to believe that anyone will knock on 300 for a long, long time.

Answer 3

Everybody is saying that Tom Glavine will be the last pitcher cause their is only one guy close right now Randy Johnson and because he's injured and 43 even with 284 only 16 away if he gets healthy and plays another couple yrs I'd say he's got a legitimate shot at getting 300. Another reason is it's so tough for pitchers today to get 15+ wins for multiple yrs because pitchers turn many of their ballgames over to their bullpen and a lot of relievers can't hold the lead and the SP's are left with a no decision. As sportscenter put it for some of the top young arms to make it to 300 they would need 12+ yrs of 15+ wins and nobody can do what Maddux has done in the past, but if a guy like CC Sabathia can put together a run like Maddux did I'd give him a sporting chance to get their but I don't see it happening.

Answer 4

Good answers so far.

Yeah, the game has changed... pitchers don't pitch as many innings in a start any more, managers are obsessed with pitch counts.

For example, in Glavine's prior attempt at his 300th win (against the Brewers), he pitches 6 innings, and gives up one hit... then, he gives up a single to start the 7th inning, and that was the last batter he faced. Gives up two hits in 6 innings, and they yank him when he gives up his 2nd hit. It's ridiculous... (the Mets had a 2-1 lead at the time).

And it's only going to get worse. Managers are getting more and more obsessed with pitch counts, and getting just the right 'matchup' for every at bat.

Also, when Glavine started his career, he was in a 4 man rotation with an outstanding team, and this lasted for several years.

Randy Johnson has about 284 wins, but at his age, with his injuries, 16 more wins is a lot to ask for, even if he does make it back.

Also, Glavine's never really been injured. Playing for outstanding teams, pitching every 5th day for most of his career, it's still taken him 21 years to get to 300 wins.

When you look at the top active winners, and their ages, it does seem that no one else will get to 300, with the possible exception of Mike Mussina...

1. Roger Clemens (44) 351
2. Greg Maddux (41) 340
3. Tom Glavine* (41) 300
4. Randy Johnson* (43) 284
5. Mike Mussina (38) 246
6. David Wells* (44) 235
7. Jamie Moyer* (44) 225
8. Curt Schilling (40) 213
9. Kenny Rogers* (42) 210
10. Pedro Martinez (35) 206
11. John Smoltz (40) 203

John Smoltz probably would have gotten there for the same reasons as Glavine did, but of course he switched to a relief role.


Pedro, at 35, is a long shot, given his durability issues.

But even Mussina will have a hard time getting there, only getting about 30 or so starts a year (Glavine typically got 33-36 starts per year, and those extra starts add up over 15-20 years)... but Mussina is right about where Glavine was at the same age.

Answer 5

becuase all the pitchers tha thave 200 wins or higher are all 35 and older

randy johnson is 16 away but it is highly unlikely he will get those wins he has back problems and pedro has nagging injuries as well and mussina must get a little over 50 wins and he is almost 40 years old playing in new york will help but not enough

look for these new pitchers to go after 300 wins

it is so hard this day in age becuase of the number of starts the guys get

compared to back in the day when guys like cy young and koufax would get 45 starts a year and ge 25 wins easily

now its rare to see a guy win 20 in a season 18 is a good season this day in age

so its becoming very hard to complete such a task and glavine is a true pitcher who never has had the best stuff but just went out and pitched mentally and mixing up his stuff.

class act way to go Glavine

Answer 6

The pitchers that were brought up in the 90's and still to this day are on strict pitch counts. The last guys to get 300 wins, Clemens, Maddux, Glavine are considered the end of an era.
In the past guys would play through any pain. They were taught that throwing more would help. Now there are pitch counts as a precautionary measure, which is going to hurt a starting pitcher's stats.

Answer 7

Because not only do you have to be an extremely good player, you have to have a good offense, a bullpen that won't blow games often, rarely be on the DL (like 3 times or less in your entire career), and you have to have a lot of longevity. Look at it this way to win 300 games, you have to win 15 games a season over 20 years. Many people don't think about this either but bats are getting stronger, the fences are being moved in and hitters are working out heavily almost every day. I don't think it will never happen again, but probably not for awhile.

Answer 8

The .308 Winchester has taken everything from Moose to Whitetail deer. Use the right bullet for the task and make sure your scope is zeroed in with that particular round. Unless your .308 has like a 16" barrel, you'll do fine in Colorado. My opinion of the .300 Mags ? More power to you! LOL--seriously, they are great if you don't mind the recoil and muzzle blast. Really, they are a bit big for Mulies, although fine at great distances. A .30-06 would probably serve you better, but get whatever you are comfortable with and can afford to shoot. Magnum ammo is higher priced (this from a guy who uses a .458 Win. Mag. for hog hunting!) Also, I've hearded mixed reports of the Model 77. My opinion is that it is really a fine rifle and those who complain are really complaining about the recoil, which is not the rifle's fault but their choice of caliber. The Remington 700 is available in the same calibers as the Model 77 and is also a great choice. H

Answer 9

Randy Johnson has a chance if he stays healthy because he has 2 years left on his contract
Mike Mussina
Jamie Moyer
both are up there in years and close to retirement as is for one more
they main reason is they have gone from a 4 man rotation to a 5 man rotation which takes out about 10 starts or more out of a year and with all the specialty pitchers,, ie long relievers and set up men and closer,, todays pitchers once they get into trouble they come out..not ike a few years ago when they stayed in the game

Answer 10

Glavine is one of the last pitchers who were in a four man rotation. Teams have a five man rotation now. That cuts down the number of starts by 20%. Obviously, if you start less often, you have less shots at winning. 250 is the new 300.