Teachers Have the Lowest SAT Scores in College. Are Dems Proud of That?

Question

http://www.reformk12.com/archives/000094.nclk

bushon... you must have a public education. You should be proud. In the meantime, click the link and read. Let us know if you need help.

Dems will do anything for teachers unions... except force them to do a better job of educating our kids.

Goldenr,... Do you know what a decent college professor or business person would say to you for your response? Have you tried to use the internet to go one step further to check out what was stated on that web page? No? Do you think that's a good reflection upon the teaching profession?

I went to a major university and kids use to laugh at education majors. Why? Because they had low SAT scores. Sad. Right?

Handing out masters degrees to people with low SAT scores does not improve their IQs.

Yet, Dems are in love with teachers unions.

Answer 1

I don't usually bring my personal life into these issues, but in point of fact I am a professor in an area of the humanities.

The unfortunate truth is that after 11 years of university teaching in two different countries, I can say unequivocally that education majors are consistently my worst performing students. I think there are several reasons for this.

First, as the poster's "reform" site noted, the quality of students going into education is poor. It is not necessarily a question of intelligence--I have taught many education majors who are intellectually capable. Sadly, it is rather two things: the lack of the tools necessary to articulate their ideas intelligently (i.e., good writing and oral skills) and a general LACK of education. This ignorance in math, history, literature, science and other areas of knowledge is compounded by an attitude that they don't need to know these things--they can (as one surly education student said to me) "get it all off of the internet."

A second problem lies in Education programs themselves. The theoretical component of Education studies exacerbates the problem outlined above. That is, they know a lot about pedagogical theory (and I should add that I think that's another problem there), but not much about pedagogy.

Finally, Education programs create havens of protection for their students. They are often in their own colleges, demand very low requirements, and expect very modest results. Marginal students are naturally attracted to education because it is "easy."

The solutions to these problems are not easy. I don't pretend to be an expert on these affairs, but I think there are three basic responses.

First--and this is difficult--change American attitudes towards education in general. Among the First World, it is the only country that has a strong anti-intelletual/education bias. Of course, everyone wants the best education for themselves and their own children, but it is the frequent whipping boy of American politics. In countries like Japan, for example, educators are paid horribly, but they are enormously respected.

Second, make teaching a more attractive profession. As a teacher, I can tell you that often one's work (if you are at all diligent) goes well beyond the classroom (it's not uncommon for me to do about 60 hours a week). Pay them better. Compared to similarly trained professionals, teachers make a small percentage of other professionals' salaries. If that is not possible, think of financial incentives (no state income tax, merit pay, etc.).

Finally, in conjunction with that, raise the requirements and standards necessary for Education programs. If one makes Education less attractive to the marginals, you will end up with better quality students and--hopefully!--better teachers.

I have no illusions this will be easy. But having two children in public schools, I know that there ARE many excellent teachers out there. It's easy to throw stones, but it is much harder to lift them.

Cheers.

Answer 2

It's a question of pay. I would love to be a teacher, but I'm not inclined to give up my current job and take a massive pay cut to do it. Also, many teachers have a degree in "Education" which is not a difficult curriculum for someone with a lower SAT score.

Mitchell:

I never had to take the SAT but I had a 3.95 GPA with a Business degree and a minor in Computer Science. My IQ is higher than yours. You might be the exception to the rule regarding education, but the typical liberal tripe is inherent in your response.

Fact: In many cities (Detroit is an excellent example), membership in the NEA is the only requirement to wreck havoc on the education of our children. Results are not even remotely considered since teaching standards are low and negotiable. My son wants to be a teacher when he leaves the military. He did not attend public school. I worked 2 jobs to pay for his education. Unlike liberals, this self proclaimed "neocon" worked his tail off to make sure his child was properly educated. Work, a word that seems to be absent from the vocabulary of the average "gimme, gimme" liberal. Anyway, I'm glad my son wasn't exposed to the sad excuse we have for a public school system or the inept individuals plying the trade. His degree is in Nuclear Physics and his SAT was 1570. I don't think he'll follow through on the desire to be a teacher when he sees what the job pays or the people he will have to work with.

Answer 3

I'm not so sure that someone with the highest academic potential necessarily makes the best teacher, particularly for children in the earlier grades (e.g. K - 6). Teaching is more about people skills than about knowledge or intelligence.

If I was choosing a surgeon to operate on me or an engineer to design a bridge I was going to drive over I might want the one with the highest SAT scores or GPA, but when choosing a teacher for my children I would be more interested in whether they are kind, supportive, etc.

Answer 4

OK Jungle joe we have established that you have an irrational hatred of both Dems and teachers.
Please tell me how Dems in general are to blame for the Sat scores of education majors.
Chronic underfunding of public education by governments of both parties has led to a situation in which most people do not want to be teachers.
But for you to question both the dedication and ability of all our teachers and to place the blame solely with Dems all based on one study of one year's SATs is really sublime ignorance.
I guess that is why you hate teachers so much - you were the child left behind.

Answer 5

Children are not being taught anything in our schools except to hate their parents, rebellion and not to obey. This is being taught on purpose also. Right now they think that they the people where they want them in the stupid pen, even the Pigs have more rights. I want to say our children will not learn, until
we can send our children to other schools and not to public schools, where all they are learning is how to have sex, thinks to the ACLU, a communist bunch that needs to be given a ticket to another county where they can screw it up or get shot. How many people understand America anymore?
it will get worse before it gets better. Thank to our politicians
You asked a question and I answered it .This is what is is like here. It sounds like you might be a teacher, will how many teachers are fit to teach anymore? if our teachers are not smart how do we expect our children to be smart , how much do you know about the ACLU? They need to even check out our teachers anymore. I don't know where you are from, but every State is different. Here children in the eight grade can't write their names ,but they can tell you all about sex. Here also they said Children are smarter going into high school than coming out. This is how bad it is . Also the children
here come home many times with bruises on them,
caused by teachers or subs, and you question the school, they know nothing about it, so a lot of parents started checking children before removing that child from the school to go home. So DCFS would not come down on them for something that they did not do.

Answer 6

Why would they be proud of this?

And why is the fault of Dems?????

It is not like they hand pick the people to become teachers.


The sad part is, despite your source, you are probably correct. My roommate is a Elem. Ed. teacher and she ranks barely competent. The thought of having her teaching my children is horrifying. Not that having one person makes a creditable sample, but the personality traits required to be teacher seem to mesh with people with lower logic skills.

However, this no one and everyone's fault. A union is only as good as the workers employed in it.

There is a serious lack of focus in our educational system in the US. Some of the problems can be fixed by throwing money and some of it cannot. Getting of rid of No Child Left Behind and stop privatizing college loans is a good start.

Answer 7

What a stretch. What do party politics have to do with this? Talk about a straw man for your odd fetish.

Here, consider this - it's from the ReformK12 website... it's the biography of the publisher of the website... a guy named Breiling... a *teacher*, in fact. I guess YOU would say that Dems are proud of him....

(In other words, what the hell is your point?)

-----------
"This site is published by Charles E. Breiling.

"Originally an engineering student, he was bitten by the teaching bug while at Penn State University, where he earned a B.S. specializing in Science. At Drexel University, he received an M.S. from the School of Education, and became certified to teach Math and Science.

"He has worked both for the School District of Philadelphia and for public charter schools in the city, teaching Math, Science, and Computer Science. He has taught in after-school programs, Saturday school, summer school, and has at times been the sole teacher for several home-bound students who were recovering from illness.

"He has done extensive research into effective schools, and has helped design one proposed charter school, and assisted another new charter school extensively in its first months of operations.

"His pupils have been students in fourth through twelveth grade, adults (including parents, teachers, and administrators), and even U.S. Marines.

"Mr. Breiling currently teaches and lives in Philadelphia."

Answer 8

2 essential problems with that source. First it is a blog, second the information is from 2004.

I am a teacher. We must have MA degrees and in fact all the teachers I taught with had ivy league educations.

That refers mostly to elementary ed majors, wherein, yes that is much more of a problem. However, teaching fellow programs such as Teach for American and NYTF have helped allievate those problems.

Also, please provide me with a correlation that directly links SAT scores the ability. I had a 3.8 undergrad GPA in policy at Syracuse and a 4.1 grad GPA at Columbia University for my MA in education. My SATs were 1050. They had no direct bearing on my academic success.

Answer 9

No where in that article is your point proven that "teachers have low sat scores". What BS! I looked up the author of your site. A charter school teacher? What's wrong, wasn't he good enough for public schools. He's got a grudge.

Answer 10

Are republicans proud that they have refused to fund teacher's salaries at a level that would attract students with higher SAT scores for the past 50 years?