Are men who have the courage to resist traditional masculinity less likely to be dumped by their wives?

Question

We know the majority of divorces are initiiated by women:

‘Men who display high hostility and strong conformity to masculine gender roles--what the literature calls "gender role conflict" (GRC)--may cause distress to others, particularly their wives, a recent study indicates.
Past research on men suggests such conformity limits their emotional lives and has linked high GRC with lower self-esteem, increased anxiety and depression, hostility toward women, fear of intimacy, homophobia and reluctance to seek help…

…men displaying hostility in the videotaped discussions scored high in GRC in their own and their wives' ratings, and wives with the most marital dissatisfaction and depression rated their husbands highest on GRC measures of restrictive emotionality, power, success, competition and restrictive affectionate behavior between men…

…men low in GRC were less hostile during marital interactions and their wives were less depressed and more satisfied with the marriage, indicating that men who have the courage to resist traditional masculinity are likely benefiting themselves and their spouse,"


‘Do 'super masculine' husbands make for unhappy wives?’ http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct04/husbands.html

If these men are DRIVING their wives away - how is it they blame 'feminism' for the result of their own BAD BEHAVIORS?

Kendrick - I guess the entire American Psycholgical Association must be misandrist, LOL! Sorry son, this stuff can be MEASURED. Like it or not, it's there.

Let me repeat myself. As stated above, the researchers defined 'traditional male' attributes as:
"measures of restrictive emotionality, power, success, competition and restrictive affectionate behavior between men". That these tendencies are there is borne out in PRIOR research on the subject.

As expected, I see plenty of Ad Hominem attacks against the researchers AND me personally, LOL!

FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW:
The Bem Sex Role Inventory (Bem, 1974), are used to assess the degree to which men and women have internalized the gender stereotypic personality traits of agency–instrumentality (i.e., male stereotypic traits) and communion expressivity (i.e., female stereotypic traits). Engaging in gender-typed behaviors is assessed using the Sex Role Behavior Scale (SRBS; Orlofsky, 1981) and its short form companion (Orlofsky & O’Heron, 1987). The degree to which people have adopted traditional versus contemporary or liberal views about men, women, and the relationships between men and women is assessed using measures such as the Attitudes
Toward Women Scale (Spence & Helmreich,
1978) and the Male Role Norms Scale (Thomp-
son & Pleck, 1986; Thompson, Pleck, & Fer-
rera, 1992). Other frequently used measures of
gender-role socialization include the Gender
Role Conflict Scale (GRCS; O’Neil, Helms,
Gable, David, & Wrightsman, 1986)

CON'T FROM ABOVE
the Masculine Gender Role Stress Scale (Eisler & Skidmore, 1987), and the Feminine Gender Role
Stress Scale (Gillespie & Eisler, 1992; see
Beere, 1990, for more examples of how gender-
role socialization can be measured).

"The Drive for Muscularity and Masculinity:
Testing the Associations Among Gender-Role Trait Conflict
http://www.menshealth.org/code/PMM2005A.PDF

GUESS THAT MAKES ALL THE SCALES, ALL THE RESEARCHERS MISANDRIST, HUH??

Did I get that right, Gypsy??? You've never even HEARD of any of this research before - I know!

OOps - your message was to the abuser. Sorry! In any event, I'll bet 95% of you - or more - had no idea this type of quantifiable research existed.

That pretty much de-constructs you too, jonmcn.
BEWARE THE CULT OF SCIENTISM!!!

jonmcn:
so far we have
- Ad Hominem
- Argument By Gibberish (Bafflement):
- Argument By Prestigious Jargon
- Argument By Repetition (Argument Ad Nauseam)
- Argument by Changing The Subject (Digression, Red Herring, Misdirection, False Emphasis)

Have I missed anything?

Where is that guy now? Oh - he's harrassing posters in the Religion section now...read his posts - same old script each time. Notice he rarely, if ever, answers the question - just bla bla bla + hot air. Each response is virtually identical to the last one.

Since when is 'science' an academic discipline anyway? Ya learn suppn' new every day on here!

Yes, Kendrick. Sad but true. "old harridan" is an attack on the person. That's what Ad Hominem means, right? The guy who thinks he's the brainiest - is the first to resort to Ad Hominem attacks. What does that say about him?

As for the many other respondents...I smell a CONSPIRACY THEORY in the works!!!

‘The cultural gender belief system has influenced the ways in which difference and sameness has been studied in men and women. Early researchers’ conceptualizations of masculinity/femininity conformed to a bipolar view. The more contemporary plethora of research on masculinity/femininity and expressivity/instrumentality has created a body of knowledge that accepts these as coherent and measurable constructs. There are many definitions and instruments developed to measure them.’

Sexual Orientation, Gender Role Expression, and Stereotyping: The Intersection Between Sexism and Sexual Prejudice (Homophobia)
http://counselingoutfitters.com/Rees.htm

Why are you guys still arguing with the scholarship on this subject??? There are reams of it - collected and analyzed over many decades. It’s there – you don’t want to see it, but it’s there nonetheless.

Answer 1

i think the main issue here is the HOSTILITY, which would certainly distress others, regardless of whether it's paired with strong conformity to gender roles.

Answer 2

No, The American Psychological Association is incoherent, though. Men's display of what can be measured as " masculine " is normally distributed, just like any behavioral trait. We will always have tail behavior that is in-conducive to marriage. Those that are more than one standard deviation from this mean of behavior may be able to ameliorate their behavior somewhat; or not. But, to suggest that the way humans behave is a socially constructed " role " that can be easily deconstructed by feminist theory is analogous to suggesting that I can add six inches to my height because of ameliorating feminist theory.

Yes, as usual, we see the same type of convoluted psychobabble that you are so fond of. The type that supports you rather limited position.
I do not need reams of psychological BS to make my point, as we find the evolutionary precursors of human behavior every day and in many disciplines. We understand some of you would roll back the clock to the days of empiricism, romanticism and dualism, but your day is done, relativist and the evidence is with the defenders of the truth, not the promulgates of the lie. Science is a true discipline and so you attack with a word that applies to you and yours; cult.

I also think kendrickflorida has your number, too, old harridan.

Answer 3

I disagree with the assertion that hostility equals masculinity.
My Dad was a "traditional" type of man---liked to be attended to; brought home the bacon while expecting my Mom to be a traditional homemaker; and expected to have the last word. But he was gentle as a lamb.
My husband's a regular kind of guy who enjoys working on cars and all sorts of other "guy" things, but he is neither hostile or homophobic nor does he have any fear of commitment or intimacy.
Attributing these negative traits as "traditionally masculine" is stereotyping of the worst sort. But to the guy who said his wife hasn't left him in spite of him physically abusing her: your wife is still around because she's as much of a loser as YOU.

Answer 4

It entirely depends on how the woman would like the man to behave. If she wants him to be Mr. Aggressive Tough Guy(not likely), then there would be no problem. However, if she wants the man to behave in a way that more strongly coincides with feminine behavior, then doing that that would caus a lesser likelihood of divorce.

Answer 5

I agree with kendrickflorida, it can be seen quite clear that when a set of folks get to gether to try and prove a point they go to every length to do just that and look for every curve and aspect to justify there end gole.
What should be asked is, dose a women want a passive, easy going let it go by him guy who will listen to her every word and say yes hun ok hun yes dear. or dose a women want a masculine man who is self confident, in control of his fillings and emotions and assertive and strong yet understanding and kind. so what do you thank the study will show then ?

Answer 6

1) The men in my family were definitely masculine, but not hostile.

The fact that you state that "hostility toward women, low self-esteem, anxiety/depression, homophobia, fear of intimacy" are masculine traits, makes you a man-hating sexist(or the people doing the study).

Again, I've known very masculine men, who were strong, tough, and didn't put up with stuff, but had respect for people at the same time.

2) If you're referring to men 'pushovers' staying married longer... I have only 2 friends who are married, their wives cheated on them, and they stayed married. So yes, 'pushovers' do stay married longer when the wife can do whatever she pleases.

Edit: LOL. Yes, it's sexist. Sorry little girl, having a group of women doing a poll on it, is not measuring it.(Their measurements: Trained raters logged how much husbands displayed hostility or dominance). You can hate men and blame them for your failures all you want though.

------------The article: 1)Assumption: Hostility and dominance = masculinity 2) Conclusion: masculinity causes more hostility and dominance(which causes marital dissatisfaction).

WTF? Did Logic get thrown out the window or something.-----

Edit(2): 1)Article assumption: traditional masculinity = GRC; Gender role conflict is defined as a psychological state in which socialized gender roles have negative consequences on the person or others.
Therefore, They're assuming that traditional masculinity is negative to others. Quit wasting our time with man-hating assumptions.
2) Don't use Ad hominem until you know what it means. No one attacked you or the author, but the material itself.
3) This 'feminist science' that men are bad using assumptions, is why men say that 'hatred towards men' is what feminism is about.

Answer 7

"Men who display high hostility and strong conformity to masculine gender roles--what the literature calls "gender role conflict" (GRC)--may cause distress to others, particularly their wives, a recent study indicates."

What about men who display little hostility but still strong conformity to masculine gender roles?

For some reason hostility has been linked to conformity to masculine gender roles to get a result. Obviously if someone is hostile they're going to have problems.

What about women who display high hostility, but low conformity to masculine gender roles? I'd be wagering it was your hostility, not your low conformity to masculine gender roles that made you single into your twilight years, crone.

Answer 8

What this study didn't touch on at all, is the period before these couples got married. There are no studies I know of on this, and its all anecdotal or observational, but those with high GRC ratings are the ones that single women fall all over. Everyone is very familiar with the rampant "why is she dating that a**hole?" syndrome (related to "nice guys finish last" syndrome). I've never seen a guy who treats women like crap ever have a shortage of women to pick from.

Answer 9

Masculinity is not culturally learned is a genetically born instinct.So,for a natural masculinity,is nothing wrong.Follow your naturally born given hormones.
But wrong patterns of "masculinity",like criminal violence,vandalism,sexism,political dominance through authoritarian means,gangsterism,even alcoholism,(you follow your own line?)are things learned and depending of the Society condoned.In some not bad,even encouraged,but in the One these studies aim,seem not either as you stated are "traditional".
Are they exposing against Traditions or Masculinity?

In some social castes of some Societies,women are encouraged to Prostitution as a feminine born right,and see nothing wrong with practicing it.Causing men marital distress.

Answer 10

Better traditionally masculine than emasculated doormats- neither women nor men respect whiny, clingy, passive-aggressive, dependent gender-confused males. Such individuals are unlikely to have wives to alienate.

Any gender role one choose to examine may "cause distress to others" so get over it and get on with life :)