Who else got "carried" in the NBA?

Question

Some basketball "genius" said that the #3 NBA scorer of all time was "carried" by a teammate.

So this is what I want to know.

Did these players need one, certain, special player to "carry" them or could any one of 2 dozen quality players available at the time these guys were in the league done the same job as the "supplementary" guy?

Wilt Chaimberlain
Larry Bird
Julius Erving (Dr. J)
Earvin Johnson (Magic)
Tim Duncan
Moses Malone
Hakeem Olajuwon
Oscar Robertson
Charles Barkley
Isiah Thomas
Shaq O'Neal

Did they "need" any one guy to "help" them or could any quality players (usually 50 or so in the NBA at any one given time) compliment their special abilities on the court?

I mean, they obviously would have to have TEAMMATES in order to play in the NBA.

Let me be more specific. CLEARLY, NO ONE GUY can win many basketball games, much less a championship by themselves. Which guy on that list needed anyone of the teammates he ever had to play the game and compile the stats they were able to get.

WHAT I AM SAYING IS THIS. You could put ALL OF THOSE GUYS on a team with Jon Koncak, Uwe Blab, Matt Fish and Willie Anderson and they would STILL make the playoffs.

Great players don't get "CARRIED"! They either endear themselves to teammates and foster a winning environment "maybe" they win a championship. At any rate their teams CAN NOT being ignored because of the greatness of their leader.

Name one guy on that list that doesn't make his team a playoff factor. I could have included some others but I am not trying to exacerbate tension, I'm trying to prove a point.

It's not a "star's" fault if the supporting cast does not exist around him. A great player will PERFORM regardless of who he/she takes the court with provided they are healthy.

Answer 1

Wilt Chamberlain had Jerry West. Larry Bird had Mc Hale and Parish. Dr. J had Moses Malone in his champion year. Magic have Kareem. Tim Duncan have bruce Bowen, Ginobili and Parker. Moses Malone had Dr. J and Ralph Sampson. Hakeem had Clyde. Oscar Robertson had Lew Alcindor a.k.a. Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Charles Barkley had Dr. J and Kevin Johnson. Isiah Thomas had Joe Dumars. Shaq had Kobe and D-Wade.

This is the point of all this. Basketball is a team sport. There is no "one" or "I" in basketball. You need your teammates to improve and to win a championship and that is about it.

Answer 2

(REVISED)


Well, let's put it this way. Judging from your list, Wilt, Shaq, Moses, Hakeem, and Duncan were the few players that you could really put any any quality player around them and they would still thrive and compel the same statistics they have already achieved. That is why centers are regarded as cornerstone players whom franchises prefer to build a team around and are often usually the first to go in NBA drafts. This is illustrated even more clearly when Shaq was able to win a 4th championship even though he replaced a Kobe Bryant with a Dwyane Wade. Wilt Chamberlin has been traded to a number of teams in his playing days but that has not stopped him from playing like the dominant center he was. Hakeem Olajuwon (with Vernon Maxwell & Kenny Smith) and Tim Duncan (with Parker & Gino) managed to win championships with mediocre talent thanks to their ability to dominate in the playoffs when everything counted.


After centers, we get to the players who made his teammates better and elevated their team's level of play like Magic, Bird, Isiah, Oscar, Dr. J, and even Barkley which rounds out your list. Bottom line is, these players are great because of their unique abilities to play the game and not just because of their surrounding cast. Sir Charles Barkley was an All-Star regular during his days as a Sixer but that didn't change when he got traded to Phoenix. It may have elevated his level of play but it didn't mean his statistics would improve a whole lot due to the amount of depth on that Phoenix team.


When you say a great player needs support or needs to be carried by his teammates, I think it should mean more in the sense of advancing further into the playoffs and obtaining a better shot at winning a championship. An already established player should have no problem getting his numbers but it would take more than individual talent to win a title. Because if you think about it, playing for a sorry team will allow an NBA superstar to accumulate as much statistics as humanly possible because he, most likely, will be the team's only option. In contrast, if that same player were to get traded to a playoff team, their stat accumulation should decrease as they learn to share the ball and play within a team structure.


I think statistical categories can sometimes be overrated because it focuses too much on individual achievement and neglects team work / responsibility. A player's greatness and their impact on the game should be measured by the amount of award achievements they have obtained throughout their career (because it measures their level of talent & competitiveness against the level of competition during their playing days) and the amount of championships they've brought to the city of their team. That is the whole purpose of playing basketball. It's when the sum of a whole is greater than it's individual parts.

Answer 3

Alpha, so your saying the Bulls would have won the most games in one season more likely if they didn't have Jordan, than if they didn't have Pippen? That they would win more championships without Jordan than without Pippen? They needed each other. The point is Pippen is vastly over-rated, because he was always surrounded by players that helped him look good (MJ in chicago, and Rasheed in portland [i think it was sheed, not sure. Plus they just had a great team apart from pippen]) Since im not pippen's biggest fan i don't remember his other teams. Which means they probably failed. Rasheed proved his worth when he went to the Pistons. Pippen never did this by himself. He was a great role-player, Awesome defensive player, but that's all he was. Stop trying to make him more than he was. Without offensive players around him to draw doubles, Pippen's scoring average wouldn't have been so hot, either. Not better than Jordan, at any rate. Please accept that Pippen would have been a no-name without Jordan. Maybe just a defensive player, like a good-tempered Artest , or something.

Anyway, to answer the question, every player in history needs good players surrounding them. In the end the team is the star...However, the star is only as good as his team.

Answer 4

I don't think this is actually a question. Who supposedly got carried by whom?

And can I just say... we DID see Pippen without Jordan, and he made the NBA 1st team. Not too shabby...

Answer 5

Great players make role players better. However Shaquille O'neal is always getting carried because if you put Kobe Bryant or Dwyane Wade without Shaq they are still 2 of the best players in the Nba. I think Shaq gets way too much credit for making players better. How could you make Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade better. Kobe and Wade was always the playmakers for so-called Shaq's teams. For instance, if you put Scottie Pippen on a team without Jordan he will become nothing but an average player. Jordan made his championship teams better because they all knew their roles. Shaq is always on championship teams with players who are individually better than him

Answer 6

I don't know what the hell your trying to say!....

But I do know this!...Without Pippen!!..Mj would have been a Baldheaded Dominique wilkins!...............

2 easy......................

_____________________________________

Mrs. Rodriguez - ummm...Scottie was on a team without Jordan!....In 1994, Pippen averaged 22 ppg, 8.7 rpg, and 5.6 apg. In 1995, Pippen became only the second player in history (Dave Cowens was the first) to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals. How could he do this without Jordan to make him better?

Comparing these two players apart from each is very unfavorable for Jordan. Pippen had a better career record and a better post-season record than Jordan. Pippen's only losing season was his final year in the NBA, when he missed much of the season due to injury and was in a veteran leadership role for the young re-building Bulls. That was the only time in Pippen's career he had a losing record and the only time he missed the playoffs. Jordan played 5 seasons without Pippen. Out of those 5 seasons, he posted 5 losing records, missed the playoffs twice, and was 1-9 in the playoffs.

Think about it: Jordan never had a winning record apart from Pippen. Pippen played on many playoff teams in Portland and Houston without Jordan.

It makes you wonder who made who a better ball player, or at least who was the most valuable player to the win-loss column.

Answer 7

all of those players could have made it but theyre team made them look better

Answer 8

LeBron got carried, when he twisted his ankle.