is Nolan Rayn overrated?

Question

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Ryan
he lost alot of games and walk a bunch of people. he just got alot of strikeouts and played a long time. Walter johnson won 411 despite the fact he played with horrible Washington senatores teams. Nolan Ryan is one of the greatest, but not top five.

sorry 417 wins. i just wanted to show how Walter johnson was able to win alot of games even though he played on bad teams.

didn't Randy johnson win 16 games with a bad Diamondbacks team just a couple of seasons ago. so it is possible to win with bad teams.

Answer 1

I think some people overvalue him, and anyone who believes he's among the top 5 pitchers of all time is crazy. He's a very deserving HOFer, but he's not that close to the top.

The strikeouts are impressive, but the walks negate much of their value. Ryan was horribly inconsistent, but his supporters tend to completely gloss over that fact. It's funny, too, that he has so much support from current writers considering that they never once gave him a Cy Young Award. He deserves some points for longevity, though.

Even over the past 30 years, there are several whom I would rank ahead of Ryan - Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, Pedro, Seaver, Carlton - all guys who put up better overall numbers.

Finally, I'd just like to say that anyone who points to the seven no-hitters are willfully blind. Those were great performances, but what about all the outings where he struggled to get past the fifth inning because he had no control of his pitches? Seaver might not have as many no-nos, but he could be counted on as far more reliable than Ryan.

Edit - For the guy above me who says many of his losses were 2-1 or 3-1, he also had a number of 6-5 and 7-5 losses in which he pitched poorly. And you say you can't judge anyone just on stats after you spend a whole paragraph quoting stats!

Answer 2

Ryan is worthy of his Hall plaque.

But yes, he is overrated, particularly by those who consider him the greatest ever or the greatest of his era. He was very good and was indeed great at certain aspects of the game. But he had some significant drawbacks to his game -- walked far too many batters in his younger, Mets/Angels seasons, and was never really good at pitching with runners on base -- to be the greatest ever. I'd rank him around, oh, 35th or 40th among starters all-time.

That he never won a Cy Young Award matters not to me, as the CYA is merely an opinion poll -- a highly-regarded one, true -- and sometimes a guy can have some barnburner seasons and still never be THE best pitcher that year. It happens.

He did, especially late in his career, carry around a large measure of legend with him -- history could happen any time he took the mound -- and that's the sort of intangible, narrative value that few ever achieve. That doesn't make him a better pitcher than he was, but it did make his starts quite the exciting events.

I watched (on tv) him throw a one-hitter against the White Sox in 1990 when he had both his top fastball under control and his curveball breaking like it was falling off a table. (The one hit was an excuse-me doink that fell where no one had a chance.) If he'd pitched like that all the time, yes, he would have been the best ever. That was not the case for his entire career, but it was true for games here and there scattered across his many seasons.

Answer 3

It depends what you mean by overrated.

Ryan was definitely not a top 10 all-time pitcher if you're talking about who you would want to help a real team (not a fantasy team) win games. Not even close.

On the other hand, if you were making a list of the most exciting pitchers to watch, or the greatest freaks of nature ever to play baseball, then Ryan probably makes the top 5. I'd rather watch vintage Pedro Martinez, and I can't tell you whether Walter Johnson or Cy Young was more exciting, since I've never seen them, but he certainly had a great arsenal.

Answer 4

Nolan Ryan was a stud, plain and simple. Comparing his wins total to those of Walter Johnson and Cy Young is asinine. Those 2 pitched in a different era and style of baseball. For example Walter Johnson pitched in 802 games and had 531 complete games. In his era, there were not many relief pitchers and starters pitched the whole game which gave them a better chance for picking up wins. They also pitched more often than starters today. And other than Babe Ruth, batters did not hit for power. How come no one is comparing Clemens' and Maddux's wins to those of Cy Young and Walter Johnson. Obviously by those arguments, Clemens and Maddux must be approaching the 400 win mark...

True Nolan Ryan had a bunch of losses (1st all-time actually), but he never played on good teams like Clemens and Maddux. Ryan had 8 seasons with an ERA under 3.00. In a whopping 5 of those seasons, he had 16 losses. He had 9 losses in another. If he had played on average to good teams, he likely would have turned at least half of those 89 losses into wins. Ryan's only season with an ERA over 4.00 was his final, injury-plagued season. Yet he still had 292 losses.

I don't believe Nolan Ryan was the greatest pitcher ever, but I do believe he was top 10. The numbers bear it out especially when you take his poor teams into account.

Answer 5

It depends on what the overated is. Ryan is not either a top-5 or top-10 pitcher in MLB history. His control was not good enough, he never had a game in which he did not give a up a walk, for consistency. He also never had more than a 22 win season despite starting over 40 games a year in his prime.
Now he did play with some really bad Angel teams with very pathtic offenses(from 1972 to 1976 he went 93-78 2.94 on Angels teams that hit .246 with 77 homers a year and averaged only 3.58 runs scored a game), and bad defenses(shortstop Orlando Ramirez hit .193 with no homers and had a .933 fielding %).
He was a great pitcher, who on any given day be the best ever. However he really was too inconsistent to be a top level pitcher.

Answer 6

No ! Anyone who wins 300 plus games shouldn't be overratted. Yes Walter Johnson won 416 not 411 get your records straight Cy Young won 511 games and he had the award for best pitcher in each league named after him. Walter Johnson avg'd 19.8 wins a season and I just got informtion off the Nolan Ryan web site that he posted 324 wins in 27 season for a avg of 12 wins a season sure not that great in a wins per season sense but hey 27 seasons throwing a baseball how many pitchers have done that. Walter Johnson and Cy Young are pitchers that have set the standerd that all other pitchers are compaired to now anyone who pitches in the big leagues for 27 seasons and has 222 complete games is not overrated anyway do all the starting pitchers today have 222 complete games I know that answer to that is no....more than likley

Answer 7

He was a great pitcher. He just played on some bad teams. If Ryan would have played for teams like the Yankees for most of his career, he would have had a better winning percentage. However, he won 324 games, the all time leader in strikeouts, and 7 no hitters. He is one of the best pitchers in baseball.

Answer 8

No, he isn't overrated becuase the man is the all-time leader in career strikeouts with over 3,000, and he made the best of hitters always look the worse as well. He will always be a top five pitcher whether u like it or not. A lot of pitchers have walked a lot of hitters and even the best hitters strikeout but at the end of the day they still were great and amazing players and Nolan Ryan was one of them.

Answer 9

Yes he is. He has the worst winning % out of any 300 game winner. He had lots of strikeouts but the walks countered it. He wasn't on great teams his career, mostly mediocre. Walter Johnson had 417 wins. Cy Young had 511 if thats what you meant.

Answer 10

Nolan Ryan - 7 no hitters, only one other person has more than 2. 5,714 strikeouts - a record no one will ever come close to. 300+ K's 6 seasons, 9 one-hitters, 300+ wins on lousy teams his whole career. Keep in mind many of his losses were of the 2-1, 3-2 variety because of the bad teams he played on (not his fault). 100 MPH fastball when no one else was coming close to that. Funniest moment in baseball history (when robin ventura charged the mound and ryan got him in a head lock and punched him about 7 times - I don't think ventura ever thought about charging the mound again)

Overrated, never, anyone and that includes you, who says Nolan Ryan is overrated doesn't know baseball. You can't judge someone merely on stats.