what do you think about ben franklin's "sacrificing liberty for security = no security or liberty"??

Question

thats what he said. i know 9/11 was a terrible day, but should it have meant ignoring the constitution?? there have been worst days in our history but i dont think we had to throw out the constitution. matter of fact the most dangerous time in our history was after the revolutionary war surrounded on our own continent with 4 different hostile countries, and our answer in that situation was creating the constitution with all of its parts and provisions. so i dont believe in those who try to make 9/11 be so unprecedented and dangerous that it oks laws such as the patriot act and actions which this administration sees as necessary to protect us.

Answer 1

Surrendering individual liberties, may, on the front end seem to give us more security. In the long run'however, I feel that it leaves the populus more vulnerable to "insecurity" from within.

:-(

Answer 2

amen brother

Taking away basic civil liberties is a serious matter, because once taken away, it's almost impossible to get them back. As a rule, they don't get taken away by dramatic strokes, but rather eaten away, eroded. That's what Bush and company (read Cheney) are doing. The difficulty is that a lot of people simply don't care, either because they approve of harsh treatment of people they perceive as enemies, or because they simply use all their energy just getting through the day.


The people at the controls right now are ideologues, and if they have their way we will end up with some kind of unholy alliance of big business and Christian conservatism. Military-industrial theocracy isn't something I would like to live under. I used to vote Republican. I won't anymore. I didn't leave the GOP; they left me. But the Dems aren't much better. A viable Independent Party might be the answer, but the pols on both sides of the aisle will do their level best to stop that from happening, because it threatens their grip on power. Yeah, I'd call that a crisis. W will go down, I am confident, as the worst President we have ever had, against some stiff competition (e.g., Harding). The damage he has done -- diplomatic, social, financial, military -- will take generations to correct.

Answer 3

You should consider how much liberty we had already sacrificed and how it led us to be less secure. Prior to 9/11, the TSA (Transportation SECURITY Administration) had assumed full responsibility for our security while traveling aboard airplanes. The TSA is very effective at allowing the Federal government to track people of "interest" (we'd like to think that it's only suspected terrorists). However, its record on security it questionable - certainly on 9/11 it completely failed.

I argue that a pro-liberty stance on security would be to recognize that privately owned airlines have aligned incentive with their customers to provide security. There are, of course, no guarantees. But I wonder whether the airlines might have taken better measures to provide real security. I can imagine that armed guards or pilots would have had little trouble dispatching a few thugs with box cutters.

The liberty that we have given up in the past in the name of security has made us less secure. Is the answer really to surrender even more liberty?

Edit:

Check out this recent article by presidential candidate Ron Paul: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul402.html

Answer 4

I admire Franklin very much, however, he did not live in a world where there where millions of radical Muslims who wanted to destroy the US. They may get access to nuclear weapons and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans would be killed or wounded. Think about that for a minute; Al Qaeda with nuclear weapons. I am certainly willing to sacrifice some liberties to protect my country from these evil fanatics who would not hesitate to use weapons of mass destruction against US civilians.

If Ben Franklin were alive today, he would be for strong security measures, such as the Patriot Act, more security cameras in public places, and the implementation of the Real ID Act. The Patriot Act can be amended so it is less obnoxious. We are at war, don't forget that.

Answer 5

Shortly after 9/11, the place where I worked did this dopey thing where one wall was covered with a big banner and you could just write or draw whatever you wanted on it.

I wrote out the Ben Franklin quote as best I could remember it.

Anytime there's a war or emergency, those in power will try to use it as a pretext for taking away your freedom in return for an illusion of saftey - we have to be vigilant, and get them to win the war or deal with the emergency /instead/ of grabbing power. As it stands now, the rival parties are so busy using 9/11 and Iraq as pretexts to grab power from eachother and the people, that they've completely failed to actually /do/ anything useful.

Answer 6

Ben Franklin was correct. He also made the point that those who would surrender liberty for security don't deserve either.

If you read history, you will see that at every majjor crisis, the voices of the would be dictators sound loudly, demanding "special powers" unrestrained by law or oversight--always in the name of "national security." In America, we have always been wise enough--until now--to ignore and reject these traitors.

There are always those cowards who would rather surrender their liberty--and everyone elses--in order to avoid the responsibility of being a citizen in a free country.

They choose to live in feer. I do not.

"Give me Liberty or give med eath"--Patrick Henry

Answer 7

His statement is right on the money for all times and for all occasions.

It was also said that the Constitution is not a suicide pact.

We are supposed to have sober, realistic and intelligent leaders that can discern this and choose the least restrictive path to solve these problems and return us to our free ways again once the threat is gone.

Too bad we never elect those people.

Answer 8

more to it than 911, we in britain have been striped of our liberties since the day we were manipulated into the european union on a pack of lies. that was 36yrs ago long before irak.

Answer 9

"W"
Reagan
Nixon
Kennedy
Eisenhower
Lincoln

All of them violated the constitutional rights of all US citizens pretty much the same way for pretty much the same reasons.

But like Nixon proclaimed "its not illegal if its secret"


Still, Franklin spoke the truth.

Answer 10

How many people died at Pearl Harbor? More or less than 911?