When did the grey wolf's (dog) association with man begin?

Question

Some 30 years ago I, Electrical Engineer with grad degrees in Comp Sci, worked with a group of Biologists, Archeologists, Paleontoligists, Geologists & MDs on a project. We'd meet at a local tavern on Friday after work & discuss subjects of interest..
One of these was when the grey wolf began the association with homo-sapien & if it was also associated with Neanderthal or Homo Erectus. Because the Grey Wolf is not found in Africa, we decided the association began in the Mid East & spread through out the World from there. This would put the association at about 50,000 yrs ago. The idea that the grey wolf/human association appeared among differing groups about 12-15,000 yrs ago was rejected as improbable statistically. However, all the current anthropology links I find tend to trumpet the more recent date. We rejected the Neanderthal association due to lack of supporting evidence, but the Wolf would have been the perfect hunting companion for a pure carnivore. Any links...

Samas: The Dog is but a domesticated Grey Wolf... genetically that toy poodle is a Wolf. Because every human culture in existance has or has had dogs, The association with the Wolf had to have begun in the very distant past. Some time later the humans began to selectively breed these wolves.

Rod: Thanks for the links. The Australian Dingo, once a domestic dog now displays the lack of ability to interpret human wants & gestures on the same plane as Wolves.

I enjoyed the link on East Asian origin... makes sense.

Russian experiments with the Artic fox indicate that canids & related critters evolve toward domestication far faster than we'd predicted, as they obtained domestication & far more mutations than they'd predicted within a few 10s of generations.
At what point one would have considered the wolf to reach the classification of "dog" is probably an unresolvable question. I'd still suspect a long "association" with the semi domesticated wolf... but am at a loss as to how I'd determine facts either way.

Cowboy Doc:
Yes, We've also found evidence of canabalism in prehistoric fires & bone pits. I suspect some ate dogs as a food of last resort & others developed a taste for dog meat.

Caveman: DNA tests to date have found the Grey Wolf to be the sole ancestor of all domestic dogs. If any other Canid produced the domestic dog, we've missed it. Therefore we have to dismiss the African Wild Dog & the Etheopian Wolf as ancestors for lack of evidence.

Fromafar: Sorry if I gave you the opinion that I thought no changes had taken place. Russians that produced the domestic Artic Fox did note the increased & decreased production of some hormones that appeared in the domestic fox. They selected kits that would play with humans & rejected those that didn't. We do not reclassify humans as was done with the wolf, dog & Australian Dingo (Canis Lupus Dingo) when some degree of behaivior modification takes place.

humans have 46 Chromosomes Vs 48 the Chimp has. Chuckle, regardless of the fact that Chromosome #2 is but a fusion of 2 chimp chromosommes.

humans have 46 Chromosomes Vs 48 the Chimp has. Chuckle, regardless of the fact that Chromosome #2 is but a fusion of 2 chimp chromosomes.

http://www.whozoo.org.mammals/carnivors/canid_phylogeny.htm

http://www.whozoo.org/mammals/carnivors/canid_phylogeny.htm

Sorry the link to canid phylogeny failed... I can't seem to get the answers edit function to work.

Sam, Rod, Constellation, Caveman & Fromafar, thank you for bothering to answer my question. I'd love to find credible evidence of a longer association between the Dog & Sapien or one of the other lines of homonoids, but other than some slim genetic information, it simply doesn't exist. Science is like that... the evidence is just what it is, never what you'd like it to be. I file these links & answers away in hopes of eventually developing a credible hypothesis... once in a great while they spawn a line of research for others to follow.

Coop 366: Yep, everyone seems to agree that the dog was the 1st animal domesticated by homo sapien. Little wonder there because due to the enhanced smell & hearing it was an invaluable camp guard & hunting companion.
All evidence seems to indicate prehistory settlers of North America brought dogs with them... some interbreeding with wolves obviously happened on the journey.

http://www.pbs.org/evolution/library/01/5/I_015_02.html

Currently, scientists are having problems distinguishing definitively between wolves & dogs. Robert K. Wayne & colleagues are investigating this topic. Test on both nuclear & mtDNA are required. Depending on ancestry, an animal appearing to be dog or wolf may test to be either unless an in depth analysis on all DNA is done.

Some dogs in the Western Hemisphere (Carolina dog or American Dingo) have a genetic trail to Asian Wolves & others to Eurasian Wolves. The Carolina dog & Australian Dingo are closely related. One hypothesis: The wolf & humans domesticated each other by following hunters & scavenging from the kills of the other. They developed a symbiotic relationship of semi-domestic association 100 to 130k yrs ago.

Answer 1

Dogs are not basically domesticated wolves - they are genetically different. Dogs (Canis lupus familiaris) were domesticated from grey wolves (Canis lupus). I have included some links to scientific abstracts and papers demonstrating this phenomenon, and will very briefly sum up some important parts.

First, it appears that this domestication occurred in Asia, before human migrations to North America. Some genetic evidence suggests that the division may have occurred as much as 100,000 years ago, but archaeological evidence for man-dog relationships is only from about 15,000 BC and was part of the Neolithic revolution.

One of the most interesting points, and something indicating the very real difference between dogs and wolves, is that domestic puppies have a better grasp of what people are doing than wolves, even if the wolf has lived with people its whole life.

Many Native American groups had domesticated dogs, and in some cases there is evidence that they had different kinds - some for hunting/guarding/pets and some for eating. This has been suggested for prehistoric populations in what is now New York State, based on the fact that dogs buried in cemeteries are morphologically different from dogs found in trash pits. Dogs are also known from prehistoric sites across Asia and Europe. Beyond Eurasia and the Americas my knowledge is a little weak, so I'll leave this here.

Answer 2

Determining an exact date is already difficult enough, but then you add an extra problem: First you establish in your question that the gray wolf and the dog are the same animal, then you say the gray wolf is the sole ancestor of dogs. You even answered Samas: "The Dog is but a domesticated Grey Wolf... genetically that toy poodle is a Wolf." So how is it an ancestor? How is it the same? As a computer scientist would you say a Pentium is nothing "but" a 286?
I'm not saying your information is wrong, but you don't want to let go of any of your premises.
You conclude that "since there is no genetic difference then a toy poodle and a wolf are the same animal". Thus for you domestication is nothing else than "taming" an animal, or "keeping" it close to humans. You seem to find no relevance in human manipulation of phenotypes by breeding selection. You seem to forget how small the genetic difference is between apes and humans. As I see it, part of your answer must be read in those small changes introduced by humans.

Answer 3

I know that in some areas of the world various tribes that still live a primitive or semi-primitive existence still use dogs for hunting. These dogs that they use are often natural breeds, meaning no outside interference in mating, and yet are still domesticated with little effort. I know that in Mongolia the various semi-nomdic tribesmen use a natural breed dog for herding. I know that in Africa and South America there has never really been any existence of grey wolves but they do have types of wild dog that have been domesticated. Perhaps the grey wolf is not the oldest ancestor of dogs. If there was an older ancestor then it would allow for various dogs around the world to have evolved to meet the challenges of various climates while still having similar dna. It would also allow for domestication to have begun earlier as this ancestor could have started in Africa with our own human ancestors. I have noticed that certain animals whether of our doing or theirs will follow humans based on their travels. It is logical that our Homo erectus ancestors would have realized the benefits of canine hunting companions in the years following their discovering fire, and considering that Neanderthal is descended from Erectus it makes sense that Neanderthal would have inherited the knowledge of how to domesticate the wild dogs around them. The nomadic lifestyle of Neanderthal as well as the climate shifts of that day obviously make it difficult to find evidence either way.

Answer 4

With the information you put forth by fusion of 2 chimp chromosomes to form chromosome #2 it may be possible to create a near human. As far as the wolf, it's like the discussion on humans a few weeks back but I do see a little wolf in each dog. As I watch my cat walking and hunting I see a big cat stalking its prey. With a dog its wolf is farther in the past then the cats.

Answer 5

I don't have any links but I believe it began with the Native American Indians. These groups greatly honored the wolf for their grace, beauty and hunting abilities. I will try to find some links for you, but most of my knowledge of the subject comes from the many books I have read. (Wolves are my favorite animal.)

Wolves are not domesticated, and should not be. Their closest domesticated relative is the German Shepard.

Answer 6

The last I saw was the report in the mentioning of the "Dog" or wolf, as you said, in the last 15,000 to 18,000 years ago but, it added that it wasn't known if the dog was used as a pet, worker or, if it was used as food. However, I think it was probably used as food by some, and a worker by others, I think it depended on the availability of food. Just as the Southeaster Asians now use the dog, they use it as a pet or food, whatever is available at the time.

Bones of these animals were found in fire pits.

Answer 7

Funny, I have been thinking about this also. I can't help but think that dogs have been with us for a very long time. Just a thought, wonder if dogs were a help to humans becoming human. A funny story, once after our dog ate, my ex told our dog to go burp at me. I was sitting and that dog came over and burped in my face. How did that dog know the word burp. It seemed intentional, not by chance. Thanks.
You're lucky to work with such people.

Answer 8

Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky, Irish Wolfhound?

Answer 9

Started with the native american indians