A question for all of us GWS frequent flyer's: but newcomers welcome?

Question

My questions and posts are rarely brief – so I thank you for continuing.

Ladies, and I do include myself on this, we get so angry reading these ego-centric, generic posts men write, and respond here with our best vigor and sometimes venom to get our point across that not “all women/feminists” are like these stereotypes.

Yet we are guilty of the same thing. These guys make the obvious shots at women and say they are whores or sluts for dressing,expressing or carrying themselves in a certain way; in this forum we defend it.
But what about when WE see it?
Yeah men have a double-standard with us; but so do we.
We are tough on other women – black, Asian, blonde; brunette, Indian – whatever; and make assumptions just like men do with how they look/carry themselves. We all have been brought up with these classic stereotypes associated with each culture, so this is why I ask.
So when can we women really stop the “pot kettle black" syndrome? Doesn't it need to start with us?

Please - this is NOT to make you defensive - male or female. It's to help us think of something we can do to stop what we hate yet do to ourselves.

I asked for no defensiveness darling (you know who I'm talking to). You not only evaded the question asked but took offense that I welcome newbies too?
I want opinions about what I asked - not your anger about reading too much into what wasn't. I said it was welcome - so what is the problem?

GEEZ - I said THINK - not react. Please!!!
I'm saying that we need to stop being so hard on each other, period.
Men will see us how they do - no matter what.
Influence can be powerful. Which is why you gals who DID get angry wrote what you did - and I totally respect that.
Now - do you respect me for what I am trying to say?
Face it - even if YOU don't say anything negative about other women, there are plenty who do. I want all of it to stop.

I'm sorry - I read your comments and reacted how I told you not to (see??).
Believe me - I've called every name in the book, and I sure as hell don't excuse a man for pig into the "boys will be boys".

But I am also NOT placing blame on US.
Please please understand that - I hate the finger-pointing thing more than anyone, and I mulled over how I wrote this question for like an hour! And I guess I still wasn't clear.
I am looking for a way to be a positive influence on men and women about these generalizations.

See - i got all quick with the typing and left out words.
I'm taking a nap now.

I guess that is why I was so thrown by the responses - it was like "Whoa! Where did that come from?"

Again, this question wasn't meant to offend - it was get opinions on what you thought if you cared enough to answer.
It was meant to be positive, and to get us talking about this so we can lighten up!

Which kinda proved my point on how tough we are on each other.
I guess it's the tree-huggin' side of me who wanted create a sense of unity; not animosity.
If I have misspelled any words, it is because there is no spell check on Additional details. :)

Answer 1

You're right in that women tend to judge our fellow women more harshly than we judge men in that we tend to dismiss men's actions/sayings with the trite, "Oh well, he's a MAN, what does he know?"

We shouldn't get angry at these men that make these silly postings that are meant to bait us into responding with an irate retort. We're only playing into their hands doing that.

Having said that, I think we should lighten up, encourage good, honest questions, and quit being so angry. We're all human!

Except for Troll-Shark(TM) -- he's a shark. =;o)

Answer 2

Good luck, Sweetie.
This place is a fu*king zoo and always has been.
Nothing will change here, so you may as well find a real Feminist site on line if you want intelligent conversation.
This a site full of games, lies, & deceptions, all on a level that would embarrass an intelligent 10 year old.
And Yahoo does'nt give a rats' ***.
The serious posters can be counted on one hand.
So, shoo now, go on and find youself a place to do some good for women and don't waste another minute in this sludge pile!

EDIT: I went back to edit my answer to one Cassius' little question and that big bad super Penis wearing MAN has already blocked me.
Oooh, he's a man, he's a man, he's a mighty fine man!

Answer 3

Okay, I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. I personally do not make assumptions about anyone, but you assume I do. I have never called a man in here anything derogatory unless that person has said something incredibly crude. Usually, I just eliminate the problem. Actually, I don't want to go on defending my position on this--this is gender and women's studies, and were it changed to any other name that features women, it would still be attacked. A name change is not what is needed. I do want to defend your last line..."doesn't it need to start with us?" Quite frankly, I'm tired of that point of view. I came here not that long ago to discuss issues of relevance to both genders, but particularly about women's studies because I have a strong background in the field. I study it, I teach it, I live it. And I encounter your type of logic all the time. What you're saying is women are their own worst enemies. Generally speaking, that line comes from people who are not all that educated in the field. Women CAN be hard on women, just like women can be hard on men, and vice versa ad nauseum. But to say that everything needs to start with us is again putting the burden of solving the world's problems on women. Quite honestly, that's nonsense. Where's all those masculinists? Where's all those people who put so much energy into insulting women rather than doing anything productive for the betterment of the world? Someone gets insulted by something a woman says, therefore a question comes up saying we're just as guilty as men for our own oppression. Makes no sense to me.

EDIT: I do know who you're talking about, and that's fine. I stand by my comments, and I wasn't attacking you personally--it's the attitude of women having to build bridges we didn't break in the first place. That's my position. I'm not angry, and I'm sorry if my point of view offended what was well-intended. You point is taken.

EDIT: I understand, and thank you for the clarification.

Answer 4

I agree this is a double edged sword. Women dress provocatively because our patriarchal system judges women on their appearance and sexuality. Yet we as feminists want women to be able to make choices and not be judged as sexual objects. They should have the right to choose whatever they wish to wear or how they want to present themselves. A lot of this is backlash to the feminist movement and Susan Faludi describes this to a tee.
I honestly don't know what they answer is except that when we empower young children to have an abundance of self acceptance they rarely need to seek the approval of others to prove they are worthy.
This society is very slanted towards objectifying women and has done so incidiously. Women not only feel the need to constantly monitor their own appearance but also tend to monitor what the other females around them are doing as well.
This reminds me so much of the Panoplicon theory by Michel Foucault and self policing.

Answer 5

We all seem to submit to the looks-like-a-duck, sounds-like-a-duck mentality. As we women are the ones who have had to deal with this the most, we should be the first to act against it.

Answer 6

Rename "Gender and Women Studies" to "Gender Studies". This title only gives the message that women are somehow set apart from the rest of the world. WTF, this is the red flag which causes all the women bashers to have a field day and then the angry women take the bait and some begin to bash back, and so on, and so on, get my drift? There is no Men's issues forum, therefore Y/A must have set this up to fail as others have been asking for a Men's forum, yet where is it? Maybe I've missed it, I apologize if I have.
Oh and thanks for the "newcomer" invite. It is obvious that there is a clannishness among some of the stay at homes who have like 600,000 points. What about that? The rest of us may seem like newcomers as we "work" for a living.