Tom Cryer argued that wages are not taxable. http://tinyurl.com/2ff35u - Is this the end of income taxes?

Question

Cryer has a site at http://www.truthattack.org. Don't we all have God-given RIGHTS to work and own property? If so, then how can the federal government properly tax the exercise of a right?

Answer 1

Of course it's not the end of income taxes, but it'll probably soon by the end of the Tom Cryer website. I don't think they allow a website to be operated in prison while you're serving time for tax fraud, tax evasion, and whatever other charges he'll get convicted of.

Answer 2

Please don't fall for tax protestor rhetoric. Most tax protestors are delusional.

BTW, Tom Cryer may have won a criminal trial, but he won't win a civil trial. In criminal trials where the defendant is charged with "willful failure to file", the burden is on the prosecution to prove that the defendant violated the law willfully. If the defendant believes they don't have to file returns because they believe there isn't a law, then it is hard to prove a willfulness to break the law. That is why some defendants will be acquitted in criminal tax cases. However, the burden on the prosecution is much lower in civil cases. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a single tax protestor that has EVER won a civil case where the court said they don't have to pay taxes.

As far as Mike M is concerned, have you ever read any court cases? Here are a few excerpts for you.
In Connor v. Commissioner, 770 F.2d 17, 20 (2nd Cir. 1985)
“The taxpayer next argues that wages are not income but an exchange of property. As money is property and labor is property, so his argument goes, his work for wages is a non-taxable exchange of property. Wrong again. Wages are income. See, e.g., Schiff v. Commissioner, 751 F.2d 116, 117 (2d Cir. 1984). The argument that they are not has been rejected so frequently that the very raising of it justifies the imposition of sanctions.”

In Peth v. Breitzmann, 611 F. Supp. 50, 53 (E.D.Wis. 1985)
“The petitioner (Peth) states that the income taxes are directed to taxable gain. Because he receives a paycheck for his labor, and because the paycheck is equal to the fair market value of his labor, he argues there is no gain. No court has ever accepted this argument for the purpose of determining taxable income. Indeed, it has always been rejected. For once and for all, wages are taxable income.”

Answer 3

You do not have the God given right to work or to own property. The declaration of Idependence is pretty clear on this issue. It states that you have certain God given rights, and those include Life, Liberty (a person's right to breath), and the pursuit of happiness. No where in there does it state that there is a right to own property or to work - in fact (historical that is) the orginal draft of the declaration had ownership of property instead of pusuit of happiness, however, at the time only a small number of people actually owned property and that is what gave them power - and so ownership of property was dropped.

Second - the income tax - the original constitution allows for the taxation of income. In the early 1860's congress passed an income tax (including a tax on wages) to help pay for the Civil War. At the conclusion of the war it was determined that a corporate tax on income was allowed, but since wages were paid out of corporate profits they could not be taxed - under the original constitution.

Congress then passed and sent the 13th amendment for ratification (which it was and the Supreme Court has upheld - like it or not). This amendment establishes a volunary reporting tax system where wages can be taxes. The voluntary does not mean you do not have to pay - it means you complete the forms - not the government for you.

In the end we would all love to keep more of our money, but we also like our parks, raods, sewers, water system, police and so on - taxes are what pay for that

Answer 4

No. Tom Cryer got lucky and dodged the bullet on a criminal conviction. Call it poor preparation on the part of the prosecution or jury nullification, whatever. However, he did NOT dodge the bullet on his tax liability. By the time he eventually pays up -- and make no mistake, he WILL pay up one way or another -- he will have paid AT LEAST 2 or 3 times as much as he would have paid had he paid them on time. If that doesn't define him as a MORON, then nothing will.

Don't fool yourself by referring to the information on the Tax Kook sites. Go directly to the trial transcript and read it. Just because he made an outrageous claim in (or after) a criminal case does NOT change the underlying law! If that were the case, murder would now be legal based upon OJ's Not Guilty verdict.

Answer 5

Geez, this stuff again. Tom Cryer argued that.... Hitler argued that.... does that make them right?

I don't think that God gets involved in property rights. And by the way, last I noticed on my property tax bills, the federal government wasn't involved in taxing it - county, township, school district, yes, but I haven't noticed a bill from either the feds or God for that.

I suppose you think that government services should just magically appear without anyone having to pay for them? Sorry, life doesn't work that way.

Answer 6

Tom Cryer was found "Not Guilty" of Willful Failure to File. He himself admitted after the trial that his case did not prove that there was not a law for paying income taxes.

The civil portion of his case has not started yet. Being found not guilty of willful failure to file in no way means that he doesn't have to pay the taxes. Vernice Kuglin was found not guilty of tax crimes a few years ago but she still ended up paying over $500000 in taxes, penalties and interest. Cryer's tax debt is a bit smaller ($70k+) but he will pay it if he has the assets.

Go ahead. Stop filing and paying and see what happens.

Answer 7

The 16th amendment to the constitution was ratified by the states in 1913. It has been the law ever since. It says, in part:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived..."

That is pretty clear. Those who argue that congress doesn't have the right to tax income have never won in the 94 years since it became the law of the land.

Answer 8

I know of gifts, but where in the bible specifically does it say we were given rights?

If you had a right, you were probably deceived into converting the labor(Gift) into one of the commercial titles listed as a wage then converted that into intangible property not of your own. Why do you think they call it a gift when you pay income taxes.
Credit and Federal Reserve Notes are that which is commerce so the bigger question is why do people accept the contract of commerce and then complain about it when it was their own fault to begin with.

Answer 9

it is not taxable. to respond to another 'American' who posted. Yes sir,maam we DO have a RIGHT to our own labor. You obviously are not up on any constitutional case law. To believe otherwise is quite frankly communistic. Wages are not taxable in the private sector. To believe we all need to pay 'our fair share' is fine, but we do it constitutionally with excises etc, like gas taxes, etc. Those of you who believe the government has a right to your private sector labor need to re examine your nationality and your patriotism. There are many other countries that would be glad to have someone who thinks such a way. Ron Paul for president. Mike M

Answer 10

Only certain classes of individuals can be taxed. These are people who work for the Federal Government or given "privileged" employment. Read the Tax code and the USC for the definition of an "employee" and an "employer" and most people and companies don't qualify as either. I file my refund request every year and get the withholding for both SS and FICA refunded in full.