Part 2 - Are You An Anti-War , Negotiate With Our Enemies , Always Embracing Christian Democrat ? Are You Sure

Question

Ecclesiastes put into song :

To every thing , turn turn turn
There is a season , turn turn turn
And a time to every purpose , under heaven
A time to be born , a time to die
A time to plant , a time to reap
A time to kill , a time to heal
A time to laugh , a time to weep

To every thing , turn turn turn
There is a season , turn turn turn
And a time to every purpose , under heaven
A time to build-up , a time to break-down
A time to dance , a time to mourn
A time to cast-away stones
And a time to gather stones together

To every thing , turn turn turn
There is a season turn turn turn
And a time to every purpose under heaven
A time of Love , a time of hate
A time of WAR , and a time of PEACE
A time you may EMBRACE
And a time TO REFRAIN , FROM EMBRACING

To every thing , turn turn turn
There is a season , turn turn turn
And a time to every purpose under heaven. ..
So ya thought that being a Christian meant always 'embracing' , peace at any cost , and not killing those who would kill you?

'Turn the other cheek' was not a reference to those who are hellbent on destruction . And in no way are we obligated to 'talk or negotiate' with evil !!
Also , which is better , voting for a party willing to kill innocent lives(unborn babies) ? Or voting for a party who is against that , yet does see merit in killing evil ?

Henry - I do hope the Lord Jesus Christ shines his ever-lovin light on you . God Bless you young man .

Grumpy - The 'Byrds' did do this song and it's taken from the Bible . . Ecclesiates Chapter 3 !!

Thomas - Regardless of your slanted memory on who really voted for this war , it changed AFTER we were there . And the inability to understand the far bigger picture of why we must stay is what I would like to see some others admit . Al Queda is there . Dems say we should attack Al Queda . Therefore Dems own mantra dictates that we should be there .
The problem is not so much the admitting part , it's the denial of reality .

Answer 1

You will get a lot of hostile responses to this, I'm sure!

Here's my take on it, for what it's worth:

Jesus suffered agonizing and humiliating torture and a degrading and lonely death rather than raise His hand in anger to defend Himself.

To be more Christ-like, I suppose we should all do the same. Gandhi said something to the effect that he would not use violence against even Hitler.

So Lincoln, FDR, Truman and others may have failed the ultimate Christian test.

Then again, government's job is to save lives, not souls, and I'm not sure what Christian theology teaches about "taking others with you" in a course of action many would deem suicide. Therefore, "separating church from state" might make, say, using nuclear weapons on an enemy easier rather than more difficult.

Maybe my geopolitical views conflict with my moral views and make me a hypocrite. I dunno. My health is not all that good but I'm trying to turn it all around. I'm not as concerned for my life for me, but for my family - they would be upset if I died. I do think of the next life as well as this one.

I'm not sure how this fits in, if at all, with your point. I'm just giving a stream-of-consciousness reaction. I didn't read other responses because I wanted to go in "cold."

Certainly people more intelligent, learned and contemplative than I am must have pondered these issues, for thousands of years.

And they're all pretty old by now! LOL :)

PS You asked in another question if people think before they answer. I might not at times - I may just "riff" mentally off of what a question means to me. In other words, I may or may not be on a tangent. I do that a lot.

But some people just DON'T READ! I posted a question yesterday and in the question stated that I did not favor something - but I think two of five answers accused me of supporting it! DUH.

Answer 2

So is it you that gives the world the definition of 'evil' now? If you say someone is evil then it is OK to kill them? Is that how it works?
Wow, you are taking a great deal upon yourself.
Why do you people always quote the Old Testament when you want to justify something that you are doing that you secretly know is wrong?

I am a Christian. I follow the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ, that's in the New Testament and it is quite a good read. You should have a look sometime. He told us to love our enemies and do good to those who hate us. Or are you saying He didn't know what He was talking about? Are you going to call Him a "lib" ? Or maybe you think He was misguided? Jesus sure never told anyone to go out and kill anyone.

Answer 3

Earny,
I don't mean any harm, but it was, "The Mamas, and The Papas" who put Ecclesiastes 3:1 - 8 into their Song,"Turn, Turn, Turn".

Anyway, Christian Teachings, and Principles do not prevent us from Defending our Nation when it is under threat, Communists want us to say that Jesus was against War, but He said that He, ( His Teachings ), would bring War. Parent against Child, Brother against Brother.

Now, I do believe in talking to our Enemies, but from a Position of Strength, like RR did with the USSR. The Communists should take note that JFK NEVER NEGOTIATED with Castro. HE Stood Down the Russian Fleet, and dared them to arm Cuba. Let the Communists chew on that for a while, and I hope they choke on it !


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Byrds ??!!?? OOPS !

Answer 4

There is a time for everything under heaven. I don't believe you'll find too many people, save the true pacifists who don't see why people don't go to war.

The question as it's been alluded to is whether the country's government is tasked with saving souls or saving lives. If it is tasked with saving lives, especially considering that we are a multi faith country, then we can not allow an group to kill our civilians en masse. Actions taken to thwart attacks are justified.

If however we are tasked with saving souls then we are to live up to the standards which Jesus set before us in the new testament. Then many conflicts would need to be avoided.

Answer 5

I never supposed that Christianity meant to always avoid war. The Catholic Church as well as most of the Protestant "High" Churches have long held that there are just wars

Further Jesus Himself was far from non-violent He took a whip to the money changers in the temple.

I do not think that the Democratic party has ever said we should never go to war after all a Democrat lead us though World War I and World War II, part of Korea and Viet Nam (and for the record it was the Republican Nixon who pulled us out of Nam) . I think that what most sane democrats are advocating is that we go after the right foes.

Jesus and the Bible never say attack randomly or avenge your fathers defeats. Iraq was the wrong target. At least admit it, even if we can't leave morally at least admit it was the wrong target. Then let's go to Pakistan and Afghanistan and get Bin Linden and lets cut off the money chain to terrorist from Saudi Arabia

Answer 6

I think yes to negotiation with the enemies, there are many ways of power before kill innocent people, but we must respect others religions and cultures too, the variety of cultures is a treasure and be only one would be very bored and for destroy, the same earth destroy and change all don´t need more.
And you are right, Christian cann´t kill, ever must to turn th other cheek and te most important FORGIVEN.

Answer 7

Let's just sit around pointing fingers. That always works wonders. We are all in the same $hit bucket. Do we stomp our way to the top of the bucket just to find the very people at the bottom of the bucket are the ones holding you up? It's us against them and all the name calling in the world is just drawing a bigger line between the country. This is what they want and you are giving to them. Congrats. Why on earth would 18 year olds want any part of this mess we call politics.? I have never seen as big a wedge as has been driven between the parties by this president so I wouldn't be all proud of him. After all he will always be the one who goes down in history as a schmuck. He could have done much better.Regan with alzeimers even did better.

Answer 8

The easiest way to attack the USA is not with bombs, bullets or even knives. Mark Thomas was right, the easiest way to attack the USA is to have a few lorries made of clear perspex or something similar and fill it up with pregnant women! We all know how much you like to protect the unborn child and therefore would attack the convoy as it landed at the white house!
No blood would be shed, we could turf out Bush and world peace would slowly but surely come about, as the USA foreign policy would be changed to that of peace and not the aggressor! The USA government has bombed 22 countries since the end of World War Two, I know why the rest of the world see them as hostile, shame Bush can't!

Answer 9

In a nutshell, God instructs you to love your enemies. He didn't say not to have any enemies. Enemies are for killing, aren't they? Or at least neutralizing.

However, at some point, you must embrace your enemies, or they will never get a chance to become your friends. Look at China. Not exactly a friend to the US, for sure, but then again, not exactly at perpetual cold war with us, either. Russia? Again, not exactly allies, but definitely not our sworn enemy.

That flaming liberal Richard Nixon got us talking to China. That bastion of cut and run, Ronald Reagan, was the one to get the door opened the furthest with the Soviet Union (although he had a lot of help from all of the Cold War presidents, yes, even including Carter, a very important part of our victory).

You can choose to keep your enemies enemies forever, or you can at least try to get along. I prefer to try to get along. At least then you can say you tried. It makes me feel better even if it doesn't work.

Answer 10

I think we sometime forget the military anointing that was placed upon Jehu to take down and out Jezebel, a wicked false authority that had killed thousands of innocent people.

Not only did she have to be destroyed but every vestige of her because if he did not her roots would have re-established and shed more innocent lives.

Do you think Jehu was Marine or Army?