Is gender identity dictated by attraction?

Question

Is it possible that the particular traits we harbor and consider part of our personality are not dictated by us, but our interpretation of the desire of the people we hope to attract?

Do women harbor "feminine" traits simply to appeal to men's desires?

and do men harbor "masculine" traits simply to appeal to women's desires?

How does this shake down with same sex couples?

Yes steve I agree, but to take it a step further, are we socialized as children to harbor these traits based on who our parents hope we will attract?

(Possibly a reason for the conflict among members of the gay community and their parents when attempting to come out)

(thanks for the support steve)

Answer 1

I feel it is possible for some people to act masculine to attract people who may be attracted to masculinity (not all attraction pairings are for masc/fem. some can be masc/masc or fem/fem and some cannot be characterized within an attraction for masculinity or femininity)

Also, some men, whether they identify as as gay or not, can consider themselves feminine or display femininity. Likewise, some women, whether they identify as lesbian or not, can consider themselves masculine or display masculinity. And there are some people who may not display either, and may not consider themselves either.

Here is an example of how expectations of attraction may affect gender: in some gay communities,some men who are gay act hyper feminine because it is culturally attractive in some communities. In some heterosexual communities, some men who are heterosexuals act hyper masculine because it is culturally attractive in some communities.

That example highlights another aspect of gender dynamics, they can change for some people over time. This to me means that attraction may not be the only thing that affects gender identity, but it could be one of many things.

I believe that gender is a social construct and that people react to cultural expectations of behavior that a society has labeled gender. My reason for believing this is that gender is not consistent universally, it changes over time and also depending on the culture one is from.

In my own culture, people can be without gender, or with multiple genders. My own culture differentiates between sex and gender and we also recognize more than two sexes.

Answer 2

I expect that is true for some people and some traits, but I really think that most of our gender traits are genetic. I have a 13 month old son. From the moment that child was able to express a personality he was most definitely male. Even as young as 4 or 5 months my son wanted to watch and participate in what the men in his life were doing and ignored what the women were doing. Although he has always been in a rear facing car seat he loves pretending to drive cars, crash his little toy cars, watch cars on tv....He flirts with and chases little girls, he rough houses and wrestles. I would think someone had guided his interests if he wasn't my child, but I know he hasn't been guided and furthermore his father is rather quiet. He's just all boy, and was born that way!

Answer 3

You're right to a point.
I don't pretend to know much about gays, although I've known more than my share. I'm very straight and girly etc. But the only time I felt "feminine" was when I was pregnant and nursing. I never understood why we HAD TO shave, put on dresses, makeup etc only because we were women. To me, none of that defines femininity. It was simply an expectation. Part of the dance people do to attract mates. In heterosexual couples most traits are learned behaviors. One has to experience and observe many stages and roles in life to gain the full understanding. But yes, since our culture, family, church, society, commericals or whatever all claim women are suppose to look and behave one way, and men another, then young horny people seeking mates will choose the ideal automatically and reject even attractive people outside the cultural ideal. This is easily proven by watching people whose culture has a different ideal beauty or has a wider range of beauty and attractiveness. Someone who looked like that in another culture would be considered repulsive and visa versa. It's also very individual, which is why even people who don't seem appealing to oneself can usually find a mate if they want one. I'm of the opinion that anyone who WANTS a mate can find one, regardless of their looks. It's the attitude that matters most. But even a good looking person whose not that into hooking up or not willing to compromise could end up alone. So like you said, if someone decides they want a mate they can change their attitude, behavior, appearance, etc and go after the type of person they want or be themselves and go to places where their type is desireable.

Answer 4

Steve_sider98 raised a good point... gender identity is established in the first years of life, before sexual attraction is an issue at all. I have always questioned the proportions of nature vs. nurture responsible for gender identity.

Gender conditioning begins at birth; from the time the doctor announces, " its a boy," we put him in blue sleepers and give him a "boy" name. Girls are dressed in ruffles and lace and given "girl" names. From that point on, parents , whether they are aware of it or not, teach each child a slightly different way of perceiving the world around them, and are the first influence over what type of behaviors are desirable and undesirable. Some traits are "hardwired" while others are learned. I have yet to find compelling evidence of any specific proportions, only general conclusions that both factors play a role in developing gender identity.

In adulthood, a person may choose to emphasize particular gender traits for the purpose of attracting a mate, but do they exist for the sole purpose of attraction? That's a tough one.
My belief is that couples have complementary traits, balancing each other's strengths and weaknesses. As another poster described - in same-sex couples this plays out as a top/bottom or butch/femme dichotomy. Of course, I have seen plenty of straight couples with fairly androgynous partners too... the human condition is so variable I often look at things like this on a spectrum.

Answer 5

I appreciate that you've put the terms in quotation marks, because my issue with the whole discussion is what exactly do people mean when they say "feminine" and "masculine?" People are talking about traits, but not really saying what they are. Obviously anyone who has studied the issue knows that both femininity and masculinity are cultural constructs based on biological categories of sex. That being the case, what is feminine and what is masculine is determined by what society has traditionally associated with each term. Those ideations of what each term means are what cause a huge amount of problems--perhaps every problem--as it relates to societal expectations of each sex. So, a little girl wanting to wear dresses is called a "girly-girl" and a little boy who likes to crash play with cars is a masculine boy, only because that's how we see it.

The person who posted about more than one gender being recognized is most interesting--there have always been cultures that do not relegate each sex into specific categories based on what those people are drawn to. I'm sure if a little boy wanted to dress like a girly-girl, he would be stopped pretty quickly by most parents, and society would definitely have something to say. Maybe he would be more "feminine" in life if he was allowed to be that way. But most do not want that, just as the one parent does not want his daughters to be asked about marriage. I think we, as parents, have a huge influence on the "degree" of femininity and masculinity we put onto our children. Thus, the traits "we consider part of our personality" are not at all dictated by us, but by years and years of conditioning. My daughter was not at all a girly-girl, and still isn't--if that term means wearing dresses and having tea parties. She never liked wearing dresses, she played as rough as the boys--and was stronger than all of them--and hated playing with dolls. She's not masculine, but she's never been the typically feminine person either. I believe that has a great deal to do with her upbringing, and not with anything inherent. I also don't think either sex harbours these traits to appeal to the desires of the other sex. I think that is learned behaviour that is encouraged and enforced by parents and society in general.

I have no idea what this means for people who are gay. Some that I've talked to believe they were born gay, others think they became gay as life went on. Nobody really knows, but there are theories about stages of development in-vitro which lean more toward nature than nurture. I believe the issue is the same--no traits are harboured or inherent; they are all learned through socialization.

Answer 6

Sometimes feminine or masculine qualities are apparent as babies. I wanted to wear dresses when I was little and look pretty even when I thought “boys had cooties”.

My brothers and nephew loved cars, trucks, etc. from day one. One brother works out with weights not for vanity reasons but because he just prefers to be muscular.

My gay and lesbian friends are attracted to whatever masculine or feminine type of person they’re always attracted to. The Alpha Male or Female friends like someone who’s less aggressive, while my “soft” gay and lesbian friends like the Alpha Male and Female types.

Having said that, I tend to ensure that my feminine qualities shine through to make me stand out.

Good question, though.

Answer 7

Yes, the gender idea works very well, mostly. I'm a guy, so anyone named Girly McFemale sounds very attractive to me. I think much of our "act" is learned behavior, we have to learn how to attract the opposite sex, like women used to be sent to charm school, and guys had to learn how to act on dates (something we still have lots of problems with). I read a survey once that showed Lesbians are just as demanding of their mates as far as makeup and feminine traits as guys.

I think it is part heredity and part training, but we still have to find each other, its just how we do that makes it complicated. There are real limits to how far you can push the gender thing, like how the Saudi's treat their women. It would make an interesting study.

Joe Haldeman wrote an interesting sci-book about gender switching, and how they tried to force homosexuality on people, and it had some interesting changes on the human condition. There were actually situations where men and women went to war against each other, and neither side could exist without the other in the end.

Answer 8

that's a great question! I don't know the answer. I have heard that women are attracted to men who make them feel feminine and men to women who make them feel masculine. But then again, I believe gender is on a scale and different people are attracted to different traits. Which make explain same sex couples. But then again, they are same sex couples who have different dynamics than male/female couples. That's a neat question though!

Answer 9

I think men are manly for show to both men and women. And a good chunk of it is for themselves, as well.
For the guys, sometimes it's for "protecting your territory" be it your house, your woman, or just your own opinion. The fiercer you appear to be, the less fighting you'll have to do. Same thing is found in nature.

For the women, it's to attract them. And sometimes to repel them, because generally you don't want them all. There is a lot of rotten fruit out there.

Not being a woman, I will only be able to comment on what it looks to be going on...

Here's a quote I found some time ago and I tend to agree.

All women are basically in competition with each other for a handful of eligible men. ~Mignon McLaughlin, The Second Neurotic's Notebook, 1966

As for same sex couples, that's a whole new level of insanity. I would imagine that one is the ***** and one isn't. Some of those couple may even take turns.

Answer 10

No, as you are approaching the problem backwards, rather as your training in social science would indicate. Feminine and masculine traits are a result of evolutionary and genetic forces mediated by the environment. Nature via nurture. It is reported to be normally distributed among same sex couples also.