I was going to post this question at midnight last night ! but my question is ...?

Question

http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/kipling_ind.html

... does anybody else read a lot else into this poem than what's on the surface and does anybody else love Kipling even if he is put down as an "Imperialist"?
Don't poems like "Tommy","Danny Deever" and even "Gunga Din" show a true humanity and well written too?
And of course "If" will always be worth reading to children (won't it?!).

http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/kipling_ind.html

Best wishes,
Joan.

Sorry the particular poem I meant to link to at the start was "The Storm Cone" (hence the midnight reference!) -

http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/kipling_ind.html

Sorry again - it won't take a direct link - try this -

The Storm Cone
1932


This is the midnight-let no star
Delude us-dawn is very far.
This is the tempest long foretold-
Slow to make head but sure to hold

Stand by! The lull 'twixt blast and blast
Signals the storm is near, not past;
And worse than present jeopardy
May our forlorn to-morrow be.

If we have cleared the expectant reef,
Let no man look for his relief.
Only the darkness hides the shape
Of further peril to escape.

It is decreed that we abide
The weight of gale against the tide
And those huge waves the outer main
Sends in to set us back again.

They fall and whelm. We strain to hear
The pulses of her labouring gear,
Till the deep throb beneath us proves,
After each shudder and check, she moves!

She moves, with all save purpose lost,
To make her offing from the coast;
But, till she fetches open sea,
Let no man deem that he is free!

1932 - the year Hitler came to power.

P.S. On an aside - don't take any notice of these "thumbs down" to answers - there's a group of people who follow some people around this site and give thumbs down to any of their answerers - sad really and I am trying to get Yahoo to remove this "facility" as it is so often abused.

Thank you for your answer Bobby L - while we are talking of sea imagery and foreboding what do you think of Matthew Arnold's "Dover Beach" ?

http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/arnold/writings/doverbeach.html

Answer 1

poetry is great to read to kids...i didnt have thebest parents in the world and buried my head in all sorts of books from enid blyton and laura ingells wilder to graham masterton (first book report at 10yrs(The Manitou) gold star but told it wasnt suitable reading material lol) and stepen king,,,but 1 other favourite book that was on eternal let was a book of poems that included works by roald dahl, some french guy vaguely recalled as allain somebody and lots by anon...most of the poems were an awful lot scarier than the novels i read...and am now doing the same for my son....edit ...it wasnt alain something...it was hilaire belloc...i had them on my favourites list and ive printed them off..but my sons a bit young and so their just ornaments so far...doh!!

Answer 2

Kipling is a great poet, Joan R. He went out of favour for a long time, accused of racism, imperialism, elitism and just about every other -ism, when it fact there are very few poets with such a democratic and humane spirit.
And he's coming back into his own now - stuff like the Barrack Room Ballads will never go out of fashion, because they are filled with the voices of ordinary, real people.
He was of his time, certainly. But he could write ballads, love lyrics, patriotic verse, the lot and most of it memorable. It's no accident 'If' remains so popular, even after all the decades of attacks.
This poem is a wonderful piece, maybe not K's best effort, but full of the familiar pull and push of his poetry. I love the lines "We strain to hear/The pulses of her labouring gear" - the whole thing is a bit like Tennyson's 'Crossing the Bar'. A kind of farewell poem, using the sea imagery - but also with the kind of foreboding you identify.
Kipling's poetry is the type you'd want to have in your pocket in Beirut.
Thanks for this one!

Answer 3

Only a left-wing loonie would think Kipling an "Imperialist". Kipling was a very thoughtful man who witnessed the injustice placed upon his fellow man while in India. Kim, and other great books by Kipling, were his attempts to show the "human" side of a people the rest of the world considered "sub-human". He was actually in the U.S. when his son was killed in the first world war (just having written "If" for his son).

No matter how good you live your life, no matter how high you aim, there's always someone with no talent who'll try to smear your name..."If" is the model for any "real" man to live his life by...a lesson those who'd throw stones at Kipling will probably never learn.

Answer 4

I grew up with Kipling. I have not read his poetry for years.

This is surprisingly evocative of a man and a woman but men and their ships usually are quite metaphorical. I really had not expected this of Kipling or perhaps the beauty is in the eye of the beholder and he would be shocked!

"But, till she fetches open sea,
Let no man deem that he is free!"

I will definitely check more of his work out, now that I am old enough to read and not just have it read to me. Brilliant!Thank you for this one, intriguing

Answer 5

Joan.....my friend tel me that don`t to let chance decide, and now i says for you to.

Answer 6

no poems bore me pretty much they mean notihng! it's just a buch of words that means notta!

Answer 7

great