Do we have 'free will' anymore?

Question

With all the stress and requirements of life in the mordern world do we have free will or is it just an illusion created by a complex system of controls.

Think about it for a second if you will...

Society programs us to think and act a certian way, if we do not follow this path we are ostrisised and/or punished.

We must work to earn money, we must use money to buy food and comforts, we must work to make more money.....

Society programs us to believe that one thing or one look is fationable of beautiful, to the point that minor imperfection of this image is less attractive and major imperfections are even repellent, i.e. weight.

We live within a complex and ever changing system, so my question is, within this complex and changing system do we have 'free will' or is this an illusion created as an artifact of the system.

Please explain your reasonings.

Serious answers only, Thanks.

PS. Please see "Small World Effect/Thoery" on Google for more information about this

Answer 1

Good question..... Star!!

Freewill is indeed an illusion, the ultimate proof being that no one, not a single person can EVER satisfy ALL his wants.

We can perhaps choose on minor issues such as what to have for lunch today, but no choice when it comes to major ones like death, major illnesses, offspring gender or quality etc. etc.

The reality is that we are a bundle of limitations as it is and on top of that, as you have rightly pointed out, we create further restrictions on ourselves through social and other norms or preferences........ we are not only restrictively programmed by the laws of Nature and Physics etc., but also through our own laws and regulations we have voluntarily imposed on ourselves.

The worst of all is the unbeatable uncertainty of the future, which never lets us have a clear idea of what each important choice really implies.... making the very act of choosing like gambling or an ego-boosting farce.

Since there are no choices but for the limited minor ones, I think freewill indeed is an illusion in order to gratify our ego and/or glorify God..... no substantive benefit whatsoever can accrue due to such an illusion.

Also, my views are exactly opposite of Jack P...... I think there is a lot to lose if we believe strongly on freewill..... through possibilities of resultant disappointment, disillusionment and self-bashing when choices go wrong..... on the contrary, if we do not believe in freewill, we can make choices freely without undue risk of breaking down if and when our choices going wrong, which happens more often than not. I prefer to believe there is no substantive freewill which of course does not prevent me from making choices which have to be made either way, but instead prepares me to accept any adverse outcome without needlessly blaming my own self.

Answer 2

Free will does not mean we can do anything we want, be anything we want. Free will has always been in some kind of context. Though life is more complicated today, I believe we are freer than we ever have been. It's too much freedom for some people!

Think about the life of some peasant 3 or 4 centuries ago. Did he really have free will? Someone who spent 18 hrs a day just to get enough food to make it to the next day? We probably spend less time earning our daily food than anyone in history! In fact our problem is eating too much, not too little.

Could you change jobs? Could you start your own business? Could you move to North Carolina or South Dakota or Texas? Sure! It's entirely up to you. You can get married or decide not to. You can have children whether you're married or not! Your whole life is a frightening array of choices. People in other countries don't have nearly so many choices, or people in any other period in history.

Sure we have responsibilities. And we live in a shrinking world with much confusion, conflict and many uncertainties. Things could begin to go downhill soon. But for now, the problem we face in the US is not insufficient freedom but TOO MUCH freedom!

Answer 3

This is an overwhelming problem. Our free will has certainly been dealt a blow but it is well intact. You have options they just may not be pretty. In this globalized and modernized world the governments are getting bigger and we are getting smaller. But and this is a big but you can always pack up and decide to no longer participate. Many people have done it in Modern society. Ghandi, The Zapatistas (both original and 1994 versions), and anybody that decided to give up a suit and job and become a naturalist. While revolution or non-participation can mean being ostracized or worse yet death it is still an option and a viable one at that.
To end this there is an old Italian proverb "It is better to spend one day as a lion then it is to spend 100 years as a sheep."

Answer 4

It all depends on your definition of "free will".

There is a possibility that the answer is "no", and that the subjective sensation of making decisions is largely an illusion, conscious awareness largely being "along for the ride" rather than being "in the driving seat."
The discussion that followed Libet's experiments concerning volitional acts and the readiness potential is still current.
Is it still free will if the decision is taken by the unconscious "you" rather than the conscious "you"?

Does "free will" only apply to unbiased uninfluenced decisions? There is increasing awareness of the influence of numerous factors that influence decision-making. Family, culture and experience all have their effects.
These cannot be stripped away to produce neutral human judges. (Even on the Supreme Court!)

Does that imply were are simply "programmed"?
Well, not *simply* programmed at the least. Even identical twins raised in one family can show marked differences.
And the populace sometimes becomes an utter mystery to politicians and commerce.

(Why on earth did Harry Potter become a phenomenon?
It's not got great writing or remarkably new ideas.)

The "free market" is held as an ideal, but a free market is an unfair one, as some have advantages and influences not available to others. It's not a "level playing field" which is a separate ideal.
Similarly "free will". If it exists it is not exercised in a neutral, tame enviroment, away from pressures, and influences.
So pure "unadulterated" free will at the least, is illusion.
Beyond that, it's going to take more space than we have here.

Plenty of people taught the rules of society choose to break them... Inevitable programming coming out, or conscious risk-assessment for personal benefit?

So pure "unadulterated" free will at the least, is illusion.
Beyond that, it's going to take more space than we have here.

Answer 5

In the 50's and even through MOST of the 60's my hometown had two drinking fountains in the town park; one of them marked "colored". The movie theater had the balcony marked "colored". There were restaurants where only "colored" could go and others where "colored" could _not_ go. That is one of the examples of those "good old days". Sure, gasoline was only 28 cents but a _good_ wage was $7000.00 and the average was about $2000.00. The problem with the U.S.A. has come with political correctness which is a b@s7ard child of the liberal movement. When even the courts are afraid to "offend" someone, the system crashes. When the congress is owned by the speculators, the corporations, and the loonies the laws become biased toward the left. Be aware that the socio-political pendulum swings constantly and currently it is in its leftward phase. IDK how far it has to go before the swing starts toward the right but I can guarantee that the right wing reaction will be as extreme and violent as the left-wing actions have so far been.

Answer 6

Well, this is certainly an important and thought-provoking question...my friend and I just had an in-depth discussion about this topic.

The truth is...we never had free will. Ever since government has been formed...their have been restrictions on what is right and wrong...what to do and what not to do. There are laws now today telling us that we can't do certain things because they are "wrong"...but...what is wrong? Right and wrong is different for many people...especially different for those with religion...and those without. So why should the government decide what is right and wrong...that privilege should lie with the individual person...we should decide what is right and wrong...within reason, of course...

But to answer your question...No...we have no free will, we never did, and we never will...I guess we'll just have to live with that fact. Thank you for bringing up the topic, however!

Answer 7

That depends where you live. In America, it is more likely to be around free will.If you are on the other side of the world, maybe those parts are ruled by Britain. Those certain parts contain almost very less freedom to mankind. In fact, if you were an adult, and you got a job you could be paid less for salary. It all just depends on the area or territory that you live in.

Answer 8

Hi. I'm the friend Tucker was talking about. And no. I don't believe that we have free will. First off, a big limiter is religion (i.e. Christianity' Ten Commandments). So disregard religion. A huge and even bigger limiter is government. Disregard government. Can you honestly bring yourself to slaughter numerous people just because there's no law against it. Most likely not. Why? Personal morals. Individual limiters. heh. Basically, to have free will is to not feel guilt. But what about emotions? To a certain extent, emotions and also logic are big limiters. Basically, to have free will, you have to be a statue...or just a cold, heartless sob with no emotion. Well, that's my answer.

Answer 9

Well you like to open a stickey can of worms dont you? This could take up hours of talk and pages of type. First you have to define "free will." Are you comming at it from a thological prospective? Does this involve thought only or actions as well? What exactly qualifies as a barrier to free will?

You seem to be comming at this from a social point of view. All that you mentioned (earning money, defining beauty) is somewhat true. For those who desire to funtion within the "normal" realm, yes. You have to participate to some extent in these things. If you randomly took 1000 people from around the world and dropped them into a world or environment devoid of current social influences, they would have to develop their own culture, their own means of meeting their need for food, shelter, companionship..etc. It may look very different or very similar to our own. But it would still eventually have its own social rules.

There are consequences for behavior. These can vary from a dirty look all the way to incarceration. In a sense, I do have freee will, I can do as I please, but I have to be aware that I may have to pay for it afterwards. If you think that true free will means the right and ability to do anything you please with no consequenses they you are talking about an extreme form of anarchy. There is the theory that if everyone has the freedom to do anything, then no one is actually free. In other words... Other people's unrestricted free will activities would inevitably interfere with yours.. and vice versa.

As for the "programming" issue. This goes more toward the mental aspects of free will. Currently, all people on earth have mental free will. We can think, imagine, believe and opinionate as we please. Technology does not have the ability to read and regulate our minds. At present we dont have to worry about thought police. In my mind I can, be racist, hate dessert, want to torture animals, think that elephants are sexy and be in love with the garbage man. Acting on these thoughts is also possible, just not necessarily popular. But I do not believe that popularity should factor into the question of free will.

From a theological view.. Many religions hold that mankind was given free will as a gift from their Diety. Personally, I fall in this catagory. I believe that free will begins in the mind. Ultimately, free will means you can determine your own ideology and worldview. After that, the free exercize of that will is merely a factor of what you consider to be a prevention. I know that was long. But I tried to sum it up. I HOPE it made sense.

Answer 10

We have never stopped having free will. It is a bit like a computer program. For some of us it has been sitting in the background waiting to be activated.It just needs a little help in restarting again.