Serious question......?

Question

This is about Iraq and I'd like to see how many people can give an honest response without mentioning who is to blame and why (in their opinion), we're there. The fact that we are there is of relevance and not who's right, who's wrong, who's profitting, etc.

WE invaded their country, and please remember, that reasons don't matter when it comes to this question. How many remember white flags waving, entire military regiments giving themselves up, people dancing in the streets and rejoicing, statues of their dictator being destroyed, the first time that they went to the polls to vote, etc.

Keep in mind, that these people have lived under a dictatorship forever and have never known freedom or Democracy. This isn't something that is learned in a few years when having a mindset that these folks have been indoctrinated with for centuries.

If we simply pull out tomorrow. What will happen to those people who have supported us? Do you honestly think that they'll stand a chance?

Answer 1

I think that those people in Iraq who were, and are, happy that we took the action we did are deserving of more than an Iraqi Parliament that takes a month's vacation when their country is drowning in bloodshed from a civil war. I don't think we can completely pull out of Iraq. But I think that General Petraeus, and many others who have said the same thing, is right and changes need to be made to deal with it:

"Military force alone is not sufficient to end the violence in Iraq and political talks must eventually include some militant groups now opposing the U.S.-backed government, the new commander of U.S. forces in Iraq said Thursday. "This is critical," Gen. David Petraeus said in his first news conference since taking over command last month. He noted that such political negotiations "will determine in the long run the success of this effort."

He said that "any student of history recognizes there is no military solution to a problem like that in Iraq, to the insurgency in Iraq."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2934192

President Bush holds the opinion that we can achieve political solidity in Iraq by using the military. Most military advisors claim it is the other way around - the politics must be solved first. I personally think this is why we continue to beat our heads against a wall over there. We cannot completely pull out, I agree it would be a disaster. But we have to change our course and demand real action from the political groups in Iraq to solve their problems from the inside out.

EDIT: I do agree with Slapnut. Most viable alternative plans for Iraq do not involve an immediate and total pullout - and they shouldn't.

Answer 2

Probably not but I have to question 2 things right off the bat, first how genuine were those outpourings? Considering the fact that they lived under a brutal military regime and saw the obvious transition, wouldn't they also bow to the new boss in town? I think so, since they have no experience in independence they would follow the next perceived leader as well, at least at the onset. NOw how many Iraqi's are already dying when they collaborate or support our efforts there, while there are no verifiable statistics let's be conservative and say only half since we can probably protect a good percentage, now those things said, let me also say this, No Democratic Leader or any other thinking person is calling for a complete pull out, we're mostly talking stratigic redeployment with protection and terrorists strike groups still available in the country. If we DO NOT PULL BACK there is NO motivation for the Elcted leaders there to do the hard work of governing, as long as American forces will protect them they can stalemate and vie for power, rather than be forced into concession beneficial to the common good of all Iraqi's. They are in a civil war that THEY must find the answers to, we cannot and should not lead them to any destiny but that which is of their own making. Until we force the hands of Iraqi politicians to do the work that they must do to stabilize their country our men & woman are sitting in the crossfire, in a defensive rather tahn offensive position, it's time after 5 years to develop a new strategy that will allow the Iraqi's to find their way

Answer 3

Its a really tough question.
There have been several news pieces interviewing business owners and other assorted citizens who do want the Americans to stay because they are afraid of what will happen when/if we pull out of Iraq. In all likelihood there will be some backlash against those that supported the American occupation once we leave, no doubt.

On the flip side, history has shown that violent insurgencies against occupying forces diminishes sharply upon the withdrawal of the occupying forces (I have to be a pardon here for not providing references, I heard a long piece about this very topic on the news awhile back)

However in this case, there is more than one rebellious force.
We have the Iraqi government/police, Iraqi Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish miliitias, Al-Qaida in Iraq, Iranian Shiite sympathizes and probably a lot of neighborhood gangs. The question is, can these groups work together if the US troops leave? From what I hear, both the Iraqi Sunnis and Shiites have grown weary of Al-Qaida's involvement in Iraq, primarily because of the number of civilians casualties and the low numbers of American casualties by comparison. In my opinion, it would appear that a strong internal Iraqi group would end up in power, most likely after subjegating the opposition.

So its a tough question...insurgency for as long as we are there or the US leaves, a blood civil war ensues with *potentially* a reduction in violence thereafter.

The real point of the matter is that the resolution of the Iraqi problem is a cost that will be paid in blood by all "sides" involved in the issue. I feel strongly about the innocent civilians who only want to make a life for themselves and their families in this war-torn country.

Answer 4

you answered your own question

"What will happen to those..who have supported us?"

"who have" in this case is past tense. those people no longer support us.
Those same people now want us to leave.
Yes, they would like it if we left them in a better position, but either way, the vast majority want us gone.

They very much want and need to settle some old scores.
There is a civil war brewing and we don't really have any role to play in that, do we ?

Democracy is Not a yoke you can set on a mans shoulders.
Real Democracy must be earned.

Answer 5

Forgive my lack of eloquence (I'm always having to ask this indulgence of you, Suthrn), but this is exactly why I've said for a long time that we're F'd if we stay and we're F'd if we leave.

But leave we must - responsibly, under the Biden plan (and I know you like Biden): diplomacy in-region, cooperation on a stabilization plan from within region, transition to security forces under Iraqi government control, moving toward federalist system with oil revenues allocated in the (by now) bipartisan manner most often discussed.

I don't believe in just throwing anyone to the wolves. But that does not mean we have to be their policemen and their nannies - nor do we have to shed blood while the Iraqi legislature takes the month of August for vacation.

Answer 6

What many don't understand is that "change" in this context, does not, and will not happen overnight.
Liberals are so impatient, almost child like.

A good example of major change taking time is Poland.
My wife works with a lady that came here with her kids a few years after the Berlin Wall came down.
Even today, she will tell you, while they are trying to grasp the democratic/capitalistic way of thinking in Poland, it still moves very slowly there. Educationally and career wise. They are still told to this day what they will become based on aptitude tests given. In other words, if you really want to be an electrical engineer, yet your aptitudes point you in the direction of becoming a doctor, That is what the government is going to train you for, nothing else.

Answer 7

Having lived in a country that had all kinds inner turmoil, change was good and loved initially but the people became impatient when the govt was not able to change things overnight as they expected and then rebelled. They do not realize that it takes many moons to undoe the harm from many decades of poor leadership.
The same may come of Iraq, They are excited but may not realize the work it takes to maintain and arrive at the comfort level they want.

Answer 8

I think that's the most time anyone has said or typed some form of the word serious in a paragraph. I seriously think you deserve an award.

Answer 9

I am being trolled by Matthew M and cloned again. FYI to all our friends to report.

Well, it looks like Team_Troll_Rocks just jumped the gender fence. Three id's to stalk me, I should feel special now that I have a fan club :)

Answer 10

No. The instant we leave chaos will erupt and the people will fall in line behind anyone who can restore order. This is called "despotism" and is the oldest form of human government known to man; it is the system that gives rise to local warlords, who are still the people really in control in such places. The strong will rule; the weak will follow.