What if teachers were paid for the progress of their students?

Question

What if doctor's were paid by the heath improvements of their patients. Other countries do it and they have much better heath and education. Why can't we?

A lot of stuff on this link, I was referring to an episode of 20-20
http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/9

What if you got paid a salary with bonus for advanced students and deductions for kids fall behind, or something like that.

Answer 1

Well, that would be ideal...but then how do you judge that?

By grades? Well some teachers grade easier.

By national tests? Well, subjects overlap so its hard to blame or credit one teacher.

And the teachers may just claim they got a bad batch of kids, which is possible yet an easy scapegoat.

But as for the teachers with bad performance...just fire them!

Answer 2

Actually, some states have tried incentive pay for teachers. They have a tendency to fail. Part of the problem is that while it does increase the performance of students in the best teacher's classroom, teachers stop sharing ideas. The best schools as a whole are those in which teachers work collaboratively and share their ideas and successes with one another. New teachers, in particular, need this support to get a strong start. If we create a cash incentive for teachers, the "teaching market", if you will, becomes much more competitive and takes away the cooperative aspect. So rather than having teachers share good ideas and have better performance of students across the boards, you have good performance among a few teachers and poor performance among even more students. So much work and effort goes into planning and teaching that if teachers are left to do it all themselves without the support of a team, most will flounder and only a few will succeed and get paid. And if this happens with the teachers, we are likely to see the same things happen with students.

Two heads are better than one, and three better than two...don't take away the willingness of teachers to work together...

Answer 3

I will pose a few questions in response. What tool will measure the success of the students? Will it be a standards based assessment with established benchmarks based on chronological age/grade? or Will the assessment be one that measures individual student growth over time (one year or more growth for a year's teaching based on the individual students pre and post test data)? If the later, then merit pay seems plausible.

If the assessment is designed around static benchmarks that do not allow for individuals to mature at varying rates or for students who have learning disablities, the merit pay theory runs into a snag. The pay would first and most often go to those teachers in classes in affluent and/or otherwise privileged communities that have the students who would have learned if a monkey had handed them the book. In impoverished and underprivileged areas, teachers may come to resent those they teach for the simple fact that these students often come into school farther behind or less prepared in language development and life experiences that lend to comprehension and learning.

Merit pay is feasible in a system that measures apples to apples. Heck, NCLB would be better if it did the same. Accountability is important, and I believe that NCLB has shown that it can be a powerful force for ensuring change. However, we will soon reach a point were the have schools are able to dodge the NCLB hammer, and many of the have not schools increasingly will face detrimental sanctions that disrupt the growth process.

The looming educational system crisis that we will face if NCLB is not fixed is similar to what would happen if merit pay was not done in a correct manner.

Answer 4

I agree to a large extent - a lot of the fault for our poor student achievements (compared to other 1st world countries) has a lot to do with both home situations (poor and absentee parenting) and with our society in general.

Quite frankly, when parents allow schools and the TV to be the parent, something is seriously wrong. When many facets of society tell kids that it's normal to "experiment" with drugs and alchohol, "healthy" to have sex at age 12, "normal teenage rebellion" and "just a phase" to be completely disrespectful to parents and teachers, and ok for them not to try hard because they're not "in the real world yet", bad consequences are going to happen - much like what we see going on in our schools today.

How are teachers supposed to fix that? Even the most dedicated, well-resourced, highly paid teacher (does such a person exist in America today?) is not able to single-handedly stem that tide. They can make a difference in the lives of the kids who are willing to listen and learn, though.

I don't think that merit pay would work in America, simply because so much of the system that surrounds what teachers have to do is severely screwed up. If the rest of the system changes, and we stop convincing our kids that it's ok for them to screw up, then maybe we can look into merit pay.

There is the point that the NEA would never allow it either...but that's another post :-)

Answer 5

Well, for one thing, a teacher has no control over what a child is subjected to at home. A child's performance in school can be poor because of many things. A teacher should teach the state standards and be available to all students. As far as the progression of students, NO WAY! should a teacher be paid in such a manner. Children from high to middle income families usually progress much quicker than children from poverty areas because they get backup at home and from their community. Children in poverty areas don't have this additional help. I teach in a high poverty school. I know. Think about this: If teachers got paid by their student's progress, teachers that taught upper to middle class students would get paid more, right? Then, who would want to teach in the poverty areas? Then, you get down to the best teachers teaching the most gifted students. That would be terrible for the kids who have no choice but to be born poor. Think, Think, Think!!!!!

Answer 6

This would never work. There are too many things out of the teacher's control that affect a student's performance and progress in school. Ex: learning disabilities, mental disabilities, parental support and help at home, etc. There is only so much a teacher can do. Parents have to play an active role in their child's education if the child is to be successful in school and in life.

Answer 7

That would be a great idea. Unfortunately the goverment is putting money away for unreasonable causes.

I think teachers are under paid and not only they teach but many times babysit for such rude kids (not all but many). They put up with to much I believe. They should get paid for improvements but will that even be considered?? I will just keep praying for it and many more other good causes in life.

Answer 8

I think this is an interesting idea...Pay teachers based on how a child does...well, let's take that a stretch forward...what if students future careers and career choices were outlined based on their grades and their test scores...A student who earns straight A's and passes all their tests...can go to college...a student who doesn't can go work...the lower their grades and scores..the less they should make in life... ...Hmmm...crazy right...Now, lets look at reality...many people learn things at different stages in reality...For Example...I had a student that struggled in math...didn't quite get it...never passed the test...never got very good grades...However, something clicked later in life...they managed to do better in high school and succeeded in college...they now work as an engineer...If you had paid me based on the test scores of that student my pay would have been low...if you had tracked them based on their grades and tests...they would not have the opportunities they do...However, if you asked that student now what helped them they would tell you about teachers that worked with them (even after they were in their class)...they would tell you about how the human brain works and that not all people learn things at the same time or in the same way...Now, how do you pay a teacher for those things...???? Do you track students for 30 years to see if they actually succeed in life (which is probably more important then succeeding in middle school)...I have also had students that do well in middle school and high school...pass all the tests...get good grades...then get into drugs...make bad choices...and end up ruining their lives...As a teacher, I just don't know how you can base my pay on one year with a student based on their grades or test scores.

Answer 9

It wouldn't work. A teacher has no control over the quality & quantity of the students that are assigned to him/her. How does a teacher "improve" his students on an October statewide test, when they have just been in his class for 2 months and 1/2 do not speak English? How do you decide which teacher gets "merit" pay? Do you skip the art, music, and PE teachers, because after all that isn't really a subject, they are just babysitting? Do you skip the special ed teachers or grade them on their special needs students trying to do regular student work and tests? Pay teachers a decent salary, limit class size, back off on the stupid assinine paperwork teachers have to do and the students will learn more.

Answer 10

TEACHERS WOULD CHEAT. AND THEN OUR STUDENTS WOULD BE CHEATED.
I do my job 5 hours a day, I can't account for what a student does or doesn't do (sit around, play video games, have abusive family, is homeless, doesn't eat right, doesn't do homework, parents don't support child, mental illnesses, etc) for the other 19 hours in each day.
Also, the first five years (when our brains are growing the most) I never see the child either.