If the facts on Iraq differed with your political party's position on Iraq, would you change your mind?

Question

The Brookings Institute recently published a report dated 31 May 2007. I've looked at their data and analyzed it from a military mindset, as clear from politics as I can be in this debate. http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-DfkctJU7dK5B7LcNROoyVQ--;_ylt=AiNXZokI1G6zowgYXNnJS9nlAOJ3?cq=1
Will you look at it and give an honest opinion or will you forego the information and answer along party lines?
How many insurgents are estimated to be in Iraq?
How many of them are estimated to be foreigners?
What are the strength and losses of the Iraqi Police and Military?
How many unarmed civilians are killed in an average month by our enemy and how many by our soldiers?

Do you really know who our enemy is and what he wants?

In other words, the first 5 people don't care what the facts are.
This is a sad reality in America, that so many will blindly accept the platform of a party and that they will not look at all underneath the tent of the media.

The Brookings Institute compiled the data. *I* did the analysis on their data. *I* have lived in the Middle East and I have studied their culture, which by no means makes me an expert on it but does seem to give me a *little* more insight than the average American.

I absolutely agree with the assertation of "Politics be damned," Nam.

And I'll make the counter-assertation that certain political candidates who *already know* where our national interests lie, will also change their position if elected. I will assert that they are trampling the graves of my fallen brothers to attain votes.

But I continue to be apalled that no one will even peak at the facts for fear they will undermine their position.

Ok Shakky, as you are an Arab that speaks the language (or that is the most likely assumption based on what you've presented), Let me ask you:
Why you don't think democracy is possible there?
Why (assuming you did) you left?
Are you in the US now and why you chose to come here (or wherever there is)?
Which country are you from there and how does that influence your thoughts on all of this?
Would you not agree that the Kurdish Sunni is different from a Palestinian or a Saudi Sunni or a Iranian Shi'a?

And for the record, I will agree, the culture does have some very significant differences that most Americans can not comprehend.

Shakky, of course a 1 yr stint of university study would be insufficient to understand a culture, but would certainly be more in depth if done in the country than in one's own country.

I'll reiterate that I have NOT called myself an expert and hence have elicited your opinions on questions that would have an American perspective as I am in fact an American. There should also be a noted International perspective, as I have traveled pretty extensively and seen things that are comparable in all cultures as well as those things which contrast.

As it appears that you are the only one answering with a Middle Eastern perspective, I have asked you to share a glimpse of that, so that we can better understand those differences.

3000 years of history may actually be understating it, though I would assert that the last 700 years of it has the *most* bearing on current culture there.

Astounding! Only one person bothered to even check to see what the facts are.

Here's a pertinent fact: .1% of all civilian deaths in Iraq are due to US forces. That includes the ones which cannot be fully established as civilians. For every 4 of these our enemy kills 3300 civilians. Our enemy targets civilians and we do everything in our power to prevent civilian casualties.

And yes, the most unbiased group you can ask about the necessity of the mission is the US Military doing it. They actually have a vested interest in it ending. Their lives are at stake and yet they overwhelmingly support the mission. They have been separated from their families for over a year and still they see the value in NOT retreating. People please, learn who your enemy is.

Shakky, I'm disappointed to that you weren't willing to provide this American a greater insight into the thoughts and culture that I did not grow up with.

For those that say democracy cannot take hold in the Middle East, I'll remind you that Lenin never envisioned communism taking hold in a place like Russia. Never say never.

Answer 1

I know my enemy is someone that thinks I should die because I do not follow their religion.
I know my enemy is someone that believes that my children and grandchildren should be wiped from the earth because I live in a country where I am free to express my religious beliefs.
I know 3 weeks before 911 the office i worked in moved across the river to Newark N.J. and they had to watch the horror of that day from the office building.
My Political Party is Independent.
My facts don't rely on the media, they rely on the returning soldiers and military people from Iraq and Afghanistan. They tend not lie or exaggerate what is going on there.
I don't know how many insurgents there are. One is too many

3005 civilians were killed by non-US forces
The Iraqi military has also lost 6,880 soldiers

Answer 2

Politics be damned when it comes to getting a hand on the (apoligies to other idiots) militant idiots in Iraq AND Afghanistan. Like it or not there are those who do not want to sit around a campfire and sing *** Va Ya with us. They want to do is great fiscal and bodily harm.

Maybe the tactics we are using are not the right ones. But has anyone given us any alternatives? Pull the troops out of Iraq? We did that back in the Gulf War. What did we accomplish? The last time I looked at the calendar 9/11 happened a long time later. We should have done the job when we were there the FIRST time.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Al Qaeda had much if anything to do with Saddam. And I don't think Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. But he was someone who needed taking down just on general principles.

Do I know the face of the enemy? No. But I know his tactics. What does he want? I have no clue. Anything I think on that matter would be pure speculation. I don't thihk the followers know what they want other than to create hate and discontent.

Answer 3

Democracy will never work in the Middle East. Why does the U.S. not understand this. Why are we so bent on imposing democratic values on people, countries or nations who do not want it.

It is easy for people in the US to debate and discuss these issues when most of the population cannot speak Arabic, has never lived in the Middle East for more than 5 years, does not know the region's culture or complex history.

Let me ask you this, are of Middle Eastern heritage?

Can you speak Arabic?. Because I am a native of that region.

All your questions are from an American perspective. And to answer your questions, we will have to sit down and drink some qawa (Middle Eastern Coffee).

Doing a semester or year study abroad is not suffice for any nationality to discuss complex issues where we have to delve into 3000 years of history.

It would be foolish of me to comment or claim to be some sort of an expert on China, Japan or Germany if I did a one year stint in these countries. This is just scraping the tip of the ice-berg.

I suggest you first learn Arabic before you talk Middle Eastern politics.

I am sorry if I offended you in any way but it is not my intention to do so. I fear that all this debate in the U.S. over the Middle East is a waste and speculation if you have not lived over there for at least five years. To put it simply, sometimes it helps if you mind your own business rather than spending over $10 billion/month.

As a German once told me, this whole Iraqi occupation is not only ineffective but also inefficient.

Answer 4

I doubt they have any facts that are going to make me think war is a good idea. As for this war, the gov is being way too secretive about what it's doing and why. The President refuses to answer too many questions and the whole thing stinks. Left or right we deserve to have our questions answered, but congress is blocked at every turn. Also I have no trust for anything coming out of Washington even if it isn't directly tied to the gov.

Answer 5

the reason that i won't bother with your link is that neither political party speaks for the VAST majority of americans on the issue of the iraq war - which has nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks, american security or the broader global war on terror.

those who supported this war and continue to do so, must pay the price at the polls - which i believe they will - all fo them.

if the repubs and dems don't wake up to the fact that the vast majority of americans see clearly through the political doublespeak about the war, we may very well see our first independent president.

the door is wide open to a good solid 3rd party candidate.

Answer 6

I don't have a political party, but I do have some facts on Iraq.

It was a mistake in the first place, and 'staying the course' is not a strategy for victory. This administration is in deep denial.

Radical terrorist recruiters are the enemy, and we are giving them EXACTLY what they want. Occupying Iraq is like a wet dream come true for a terrorist recruiter.

Answer 7

do you think the Brookings Institute is really giving you "the facts"?

I don't know the facts and don't expect I'll ever now. Unless I was there and could speak Arabic with the locals I won't guess.