Why do people even question that Yogi Berra is the greatest catcher of all time?

Question

For Example,

Bench has a .267 carrer batting average Berra has a .285.

Bench had 1,376 R.B.I.'s Berra had 1430.

Bench won two world series Berra won 10.

Bench won two M.V.P.'s Berra won three.

See my point?

Berra by far is better then Bench.

Dont you agree?

Carlton fisk batted .269, had a .341 O.B.P. had 1,330 R.B.I's and won the gold glove once.

How is he the best catcher?

Roy Campanella hit .276, had 242 home runs and 856 R.B.I.'s, yes even if he played longer at the rate he was playing he would probably not have the same numbers as Berra. Oh, and Campanella never won a Gold Glove.

Yes, Bench was a superior defender (better then Berra) but Berra was a O.K. fielder but got on base more times then Bench.

Yes, I understand winning a World Series is a team effort but without the Yankees Berra the Yankees wouldnt win 10 world series.

Berra olny struck out 414 times in his carrer with 7555 atbats.

Does he not have the most World Series hits?

Also Yogi Berra wasnt a bad defender!

He played 148 consecutive game without making a error. A catcher record.

Answer 1

Yogi Berra is the best for now. Ivan Rodriguez's career isn't over, though. I think he is the best all round there is. Johnny Bench was great, yes, but he didn't have Carlton Fisk's durability career-wise. Roy Campanella is also SO over-looked as a great one.
It's also a habit to over-looke players from earlier days because of equipment and conditions. However, a catcher who stands out from those days -- again, as an all-round player -- needs attention. Bill Dickey gets a nod.

Answer 2

I do not agree for many reasons:

1. Yogi had a better BA, but Campanella had a .360 OBP compared to Yogi's .348 and Bench's .342

2. Yogi had the most RBI because he played 19 seasons.

Player AVG RBI
Yogi 75
Bench 80
Campanella 86

3. I could not find statistics to support runners thrown out/stolen bases allowed, but anecdotal evidence supports that both Bench and Campanella had better arms than Berra.

4. Defensively fielding % is as follows:

Bench - .990 (1742 games)
Yogi - .989 (1699 games)
Campanella - .988 (1183 games)

5. There is more to catching than offense and fielding statistics. How well does a catcher call a game? Does the pitching staff feel confident with the catcher behind the plate?

These are intangibles that cannot be truly measured.

For overall package I rank as follows:

Campanella
Bench
Berra

Answer 3

No, you are mistaken. First, Berra didn't win 10 WS, the Yankees did.

That aside, Bench was a far superior defensive player to Berra's great defensive play, and a slightly better hitter.

While they had similar OBP's, more important than average, Berra only twice finished in the top 5 in slugging. Bench did five times.

Again, Bench wins by the skin of his teeth on the basis of his superior defense.

Answer 4

Put it this way -- I think Johnny Bench has a higher value for one season. In other words, I'd take Bench if I needed a catcher for my team in 2008.

If I were drafting for careers, I might drop Bench down a couple of notches. Berra and Fisk certainly are in the argument, and Pudge Rodriguez is about to enter it.

Josh Gibson probably deserves to be in the discussion somewhere, although I have no idea about his defensive abilities. He probably was the best one-season hitter of the bunch, although we'll never know for sure because he was in the ***** Leagues. And Mike Piazza might be the best hitter of all of them ... but catching is more than just hitting.

Answer 5

I'm not arguing against your opinion, but there are a few obvious concerns I have about your stats:

1) Using World Series to measure a player is stupid. By that standard, Frank Crosetti is a far, far better shortstop than Derek Jeter because he won more rings.

2) Your RBI numbers don't take into account two facts - the fact that RBI are dependent on many factors like your place in the lineup, how many around you are on base at the time, etc., and also the offensive era in which those numbers were produced. Bench played in an era in which runs were more difficult to come by than in the era during which Berra played.

3) The difference in batting average is 18 points, but I'd pay more attention to OBP and slugging, where the difference is only 6 points. Using only BA totally discounts a player's ability to get on base in other ways.

4) You make no mention of defense. When you're talking about Bench - who is one of the top two defensive catchers of all-time, and far better than was Berra - you can't discount defense when arguing about value.

The offensive numbers are very close, and affected by era. Given Bench's obvious superiority behind the plate, I'd give the nod to him. Berra was a great, great player, but not on the level of Bench.

Answer 6

Yogi could desire to hit and seize properly (call the sport). interior the e book Teammates by David Halberstam, he comments that for the period of 1945 Bobby Doerr (crimson Sox HOF secondbaseman) suggested to the crimson Sox that he had performed against a protection rigidity group that had a great youthful catcher by the call of Berra who had signed with the Yankees. And what an incredible spokesman and announcer he'd make

Answer 7

Because some people find him, certainly a candidate, but not necessarily -- and not undoubtedly -- the Best Ever. And in this consideration, wearing (or not) pinstripes makes no difference.

Now, futzing about with kiddie-pool stats like RBI, and batting average can tell us a tiny bit, but nowhere near enough to make meaningful rankings, certainly not when we're looking to credit Best Ever upon someone. We could as easily note that Bench has 389 homers and 68 stolen bases to Berra's 358 and 30, and, well, why delve deeper when the (cleverly chosen) stats make the argument so clearly?

Championships are a team accomplishment.

And MVP Awards, while nice, are nothing but an opinion poll among the writers -- a highly-regarded opinion poll, but not something that represents on-field performance. Here we could cite Bench's one Rookie Of The Year Award to Berra's zero, and that doesn't help Yogi, now does it?

I'm not making any distinction between Bench and Berra, though it could be done and not be all that difficult. But the presented methodology is useless, and this needed to be shown.

Answer 8

I don't agree, but your argument is reasonable. Bench was better defensively--at least, that's what I've always seen as the consensus opinion. His RBIs came in less games. You can't say Berra is better because of the world series titles--he was played on the Yankees. Joe Pepitone has more world series championships than Ernie Banks, but what does that prove? Granted, Berra was a vital part of thos championships. People don't realize how great a player he was because of the goofy persona he has for mispeaking.

Answer 9

I agree, Casey Stengel stated, that he never played a game without his man...Yogi Berra not Mickey Mantle. I think people forget how athletic he was and he could played left field, right field and catcher. It's also hard to argue against Johnny Bench. Better arm, more power and I do agree that the world series title are an add on.

Answer 10

I disagree. Berra Set the standard, but that changes over time. All you mention are Offensive stats and Awards. Where does defense fit in?

The World Series is won by TEAMS not a PLAYER!!!!