Will someone out there answer this question?

Question

I was given a best answer to a question I posted involving the void. Bekki B informed me that I misunderstand what the univeverse expanded into. Bekki B states that all the space there is is what the universe expaned into! This means, by definition there can be only be one universe in existance, many others disagree with this. It is becomming obvious to me that everyone is leary of going past the conclusions that are based on the limits of what physistists know down to the last 10-43 sec in time after the big bang came into being. A Swiss physist claims that this time represents the life span of the singularity and that was a state of matter that science does not recognize. Even the most famous equasion of all scientific history, E=MC squared breaks down here, the onlypart of it that existed at that time was the E, therefore the equation was meaningless. The first law of physics to kick in was thermodynamics when the total cold of the void began to absorb the heat of the singularity.

Answer 1

It is difficult to get a mental wrap around the notion that the beginning of the universe ALSO means the beginning of *space* and *time.* If you say, what did it expand into, you are imagining space as already existing, and space expanding into space. If you ask, what came before there was time, then you are imagining time before there was time. Actually, we can't imagine a condition of no-space and no-time.

We think of the pure vacuum of space as "nothing" but actually in terms of modern cosmological theory pure vacuums have a lot going on including quantum effects, time, expansion, and so on.

One way to get at the issue is this. If you are standing at the north pole, which way is north? Every direction is south.

Another cosmological notion that people interested in understanding the theory need to get around, is the notion that "the universe started smaller than a pin and expanded." That is true of our *observable* universe.

=> But there is nothing in the theory that precludes an infinite number of pinpoints extending in all directions. Each pin begins to expand and form the cosmos: an infinite cosmos, which we perceive as expanding. Another way of stating it is this: the universe is becoming less dense, and one of the effects of that decrease in density is cooling. <=

So don't picture an "outside." Picture an unending expanse that is cooling, and which to our point of view, is getting bigger. That may help you with issues of inside and outside. No inside and no outside, just infinite expansion of space from what may have been an infinite expanse of pin-sized universes waiting to expand and cool.

As for the "before there was time" you have to consider that there is no answer just as there is no answer to the question of "which way is north" when standing at the north pole. The beginning is the beginning.

Some cosmological theories are positing a "before the beginning" with all kinds of branes and collisions of strings sparking our universe etc. None of these theories about "before there was time" have produced any testable proposition.

By contrast, what is important about the "Big Bang" theory was that it produced a number of testable propositions, such as cosmic microwave background radiation, and these propositions have been verified.

It is fair to say, by the way, that these concepts will never be "understood" in the same way that other parts of scientific endeavor will be understood. It is possible that the only way something like "before time" will ever be "understandable" is in a system of equations which indicates that "before time" solves certain issues we face in the observable universe.

This is not such a bad deal. A physicist can calculate with great certainty the devastation and heat energy released by an Asteroid impact or a nuclear bomb but he can't really *understand* it because some things surpass understanding on the human level of experience. It's one thing to say the dinosaurs were wiped out by a meteorite impact and quite another to say that you can fully grasp, as an individual, what it would have been like to be on Earth during that event.

And such an event is a triviality compared to the forces that are being modeled via the equations of physics when we talk about the origin of the universe. We do know that forces such as time, light, and gravity are impact one another, and our knowledge of these effects, on very great scales (themselves beyond comprehension) currently points to a "Big Bang" and running what we observe backwards indicates a beginning about 13.5 billion years ago. But the "space that space expands into," one has to let go of that notion. It is space itself which is coming into existence and expanding, and there is nothing in the model that says all that we see is all that there is. Indeed, current notions of a cosmos that expands indefinitely can live quite happily with the notion that at the beginning there was an infinite number of points which then became our universe and the universes on top, under, across, next to, and so on, forever.

So, on the one hand, we're doing a pretty good job, as very tiny insignificant beings, of grasping how insignificant we are. But on the other hand, there are some things that we may never understand in any conventional sense. The "time before time" certainly falls into that category.

Answer 2

as far as i got it, there is still no space where the universe expands into.
space itself came to its existance in the big bang.
There's no 'outside'

you agreed in that it was a singularity, so the consequence of that is, that there has been an infinite ammount of energy/matter which has been emitted. the process which let the singularity do this is still unknown.
This process however did not produce anything outside so far, at least not for us being inside.

This high ammount of matter/energy expands as some sort of shell, and cause it still has this infinite mass (with flucuations) it is capable bending radiation caused by it back to itself.
All we would see is this 4K blackbody radiation.
Matter (as we know it) dark matter and dark energy are believed to be seperated by this wall by these observed fluctuations. And it was said that matter and gravity are keeping the energy-balance stabilized.
where as dark matter adds to matter in the equation and dark energy playing the antipart of the matter/darkmatter side, causing the wall to move away from us.

All the discussions along with other universes is because the best working theory so far (Quantumnelectrodynamics) predicts subatomic particles which are able to travel back and forth in time. So it might be possible that there are multiple universes at the same spot 'our own' is.
One may imagine such another Universe as being a possible alternate history for every possiblilty any subatomic particle might has.
That sounds kind of weird , but i think the best analogy is that while you think about time as a constant line you follow, it may look like if you step from this moment to the next by constantly changing the universe, like stepping through a door.

phew
have i wrote this ?

Answer 3

"This means, by definition there can be only be one universe in existance, "

Actually, no. Space is what our universe is expanding into. There is nothing preventing there being other space continuum with other universes.

E=mc^^2 is the mass energy conversion formula and still works when there is no mass because it shows how much energy is in any given mass and how much energy it takes to constitute any give mass. It does not say how much energy or mass is in the universe and does not require there to be any mass in the universe to be valid. In fact, if one knew how much mass and energy is in the universe right now, one could run the mass through the equation and add the output to the amount of energy in the universe and know how much energy was in the universe just after the Big Bang.

What you fail to see is that no one actually knows what existed before our universe came into being because the math we use to describe the universe breaks down as t=0. At t=<0, the math that describes the universe doesn't work.

Answer 4

Your question is so long that it is hard to understand what you are asking. I think that you want to know if the Laws of Thermodynamics were the first laws of physics (physics as we now know it) to form in the new universe.

I'm not an expert on astrophysics, but I assume that you are asking a question that no one really knows the answer to.

====edit===

If you are asking what the universe is expanding into, it is space itself that is expanding as the distance between objects become greater. So no one really knows what "space" is expanding into since it is empty "space" itself that is apparently expanding, as shown by the red-shifted light that travels through it.

Answer 5

The universe is expanding by changing it's curvature, as we are observers on the inside it is impossible to determine whether the 'expansion' is really a shrinkage in a 'finite' volume or a change in the volume of the universe representing an actual change in dimensions - we measure the distance in light years, but perhaps the scale is changing rather than the 'absolute' distance if there is such a thing.

Answer 6

I answer first, and if the answering makes me think of or makes my day, then i will celebrity. i comprehend...this is choosy of me, sorry. o.o yet this type I finally end up pointing my followers and contacts to the *solid stuff* you comprehend? ^__^ Or a minimum of i attempt to. yet have a celebrity besides merely for being affected person and awareness. ^_^

Answer 7

yes whatever