Does anybody think the Theory of Evolution violates the 2 Law of Thermodynamics?

Question

ok, so the earth is an open system! That is a very simplistic and flawed answer that does nothing to explain the level of order that exists on Earth! The Sun's energizes the Earth's system it does nothing to give order to that system.

Answer 1

Not if they understand the Theory of Evolution and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

When you observe the Earth and the Sun, it may seem that the evolution of life on earth over time violates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics at first glance.

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics does not state that complexity shall not occur in the universe. It simply states that order is highly unlikely to spontaneously occur within a homogeneous system. Remember, complexity and order are two different things.

The universe is not homogeneous. It has areas of high energy density, and lower energy density. The solar system is a high energy density volume compared to most of the volume of the universe. Life has arisen on this planet. Physical evidence indicates that life has increased in complexity over time. This is likely due to the high energy density of the solar system, most likely from the incident energy of the sun and the environment of the earth which enables life as we understand it to flourish here.

As life increases in complexity, it increases it's use of energy, thereby increasing entropy throughout the universe although only in a localized sense at first (EM radiation limited to the speed of light in vacuum). The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states that in any closed cycle, there can be no energy created, and that entropy will remain the same or increase. Entropy can never be decreased in a cycle.

Do not mistake what humans consider "order" such as "laws" and societal mores as the opposite of entropy. Entropy is the measurement of disorder within a system. Such disorder being the release of energy that cannot be recovered or reused within the system.

The system should be defined as all the particles and energy within the system boundaries.

The Theory of Evolution simply states that organisms evolve through natural selection. In other words, the most fit organism for the environment survives and adapts. Humans have complex physiology and complex societies, but they are not orderly by the standards of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

I hope this explanation has clarified the issue for you.

Answer 2

this is commonly used as an argument against evolution. But anyone who thinks evolution violates any law of thermo doesn't understand thermo or evolution. The 2nd law of thermo deals with entropy, and therefor heat. It says nothing on the complexity of structures or that things go toward chaos. And anyone who things it does isn't educated on the subject.

Even the people who bring up the open system earth argument are flawed. They are falling into the trap that the 2nd law has anything to do with genetics, DNA, or reproduction. It ONLY deals with heat transfer, nothing else.

Answer 3

To quote from the rap song "Entropy", by MC Hawking:

"Creationists always try to use the 2nd law
To disprove evolution, but their theory has a flaw.
The 2nd law is quite precise about where it applies:
Only in closed systems must the entropy count rise
The Earth's not a closed system; it's powered by the Sun,
So f*ck the d*mn creationists, Doomsday, get my gun."

All joking aside, this is valid physics. The Earth is NOT a closed system. It constantly receives energy from the Sun, and therefore the entropy on the Earth CAN decrease, permitting evolution.

Answer 4

The second law of thermodynamics applies only to closed systems. The earth is an open system receiving energy from the sun.

Answer 5

the second law does not say that entropy must increase everywhere. it says that the total entropy of a closed system must increase. subtle point, but important. entropy can decrease in some places as long as it increases in other places to balance out. this is what life does - it operates in opposition to the tendency of the second law, but does not violate it. i suppose it's a little like the way flight operates in opposition to gravity, but doesn't violate it.

besides, if evolution violated the second law, growth and development of organisms would violate it even more so.

Answer 6

I think the Theory of Evolution compliments the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Evolution is a process of increasing entropy. Think of a basic cell which life evolved from. One simple cell created millions of species. Think of a stack of 100 sheets of paper left in the wind. The paper will scatter resulting in less order (greater entropy). By going from one cell to multiple species, entropy increased in a similar way. In order to decrease entropy you'd have to get every organism on earth and combine them into that single cell they evolved from.
An additional comment. I should not only go back to the first cell, but further back to the molecules and chemical reactions that had to take place to form the first organisisms. Actually, I should first go further back to the big bang theory. Lets assume that the big bang theory is correct. The universe started as a dense entity with tremendous energy. As the theoretical event took place, the energy that binded that matter in place was lost to entropy and the universe expanded (obeying the 2nd law of thermodynamics). The earth was eventually created from the reactions that took place during that expansion. No energy was created in the mean time. The environmental conditions based on the relative position of earth to the sun, in addition to the comets that hit the earth (converting kinetic energy into the lowest energy form heat, which supposedly melted the ice from the comets providing water to this planet) and volcanic eruptions (in which potential energy was converted to heat and increased entropy) formed a theoretical primordial atmosphere that in combination with the atoms that the earth was composed of sparked those first self replicating molecules which were the foundation of life. All this time the sun was transferring its energy to earth (keep in mind that the sun has been proven to not have infinite energy as observed from super novas). This heat served as a catalyst to replicate these molecules. As mutations started to occur in these molecules, evolution began based on "survival of the fittest". Some organisms began to feed off of other organisms and energy was transfered from one organism to another organism. Each one of these organisms produced heat. Eventually humans came along, and began transferring heat energy into higher forms of energy. Wait, think about it for a second, even though we decrease entropy in some cases, we require much more input based from the plants that absorb the sun's rays than we can provide output. All the energy we obtain from fossil fuels and renewable energy sources to decrease entropy, comes from lower forms of energy converted through inefficient processes which create entropy. Even in plants, photosynthesis is used to stimulate chemical reactions creating a higher form of energy than heat but the reactions are not 100% efficient, therefore the 2nd law is obeyed here in that it is impossible to convert all of this heat completely into work, thus creating entropy.
So when the sun dies out, all of its heat would be transfered into entropy. It doesn't matter whether evolution occurred or not, nothing will be living once the sun dies (in our solar system), there will just be matter and entropy. Keep in mind I am keeping our solar system a closed system in this case. There might be another source of heat living organisms can multiply and evolve on, but no matter what entropy is going to increase. I kept the solar system a closed system just to prove the point.

Answer 7

How is that....Evolution is adaptation ...those traits that help a species survive are passed on...the all matter toward randomness does not apply as there is the energy of survival being put in therefore it proofs the theory

Answer 8

Sure, there are people who think that. Most of them are called 'religious fundamentalists' who don't understand the 2nd law in the first place.

Answer 9

Best. Answer. Ever.

MC Hawking ftw.

Answer 10

whun133 got it on the head