Is democracy a false utopia?

Question

If we need to abandon our rights for the sake of protecting our country, isn;t that saying democracy can't work in practice? If we rely on the electoral college, does that mean that one man one vote cannot work in every election? Do we really live in a democracy? Are we really free? Or are these just ideals?

I had never heard anyone talk bad about democracy, or claim that we didn;t live in one, until Bush became president...many of you are just pleased to not have to be free. Perhaps those are the ones who shold leave, not those of us who still believe in a free country, that is represented by the people, for the people, and of the people.

lol, I would be FINE with leaving things up to the majority, if everyone voted. I would be fine with levaing things up to the representatives, if they represented the people. NEITHER ONE IS A REALITY, so the question remains...

Answer 1

"Is democracy a false utopia? "
Yes. As a concept, democracy is NO MORE OR LESS just than "Might makes right." Democracy is simply the winner-take-all rule of a consensus of the uninformed. Liberty has no protection in a democracy if a plurality of arrant fools is against it.

"If we need to abandon our rights for the sake of protecting our country, isn't that saying democracy can't work in practice?"
Yes and no. Democracy always "works", if you define "working" as performing just incompetently enough to not get voted out of office. Democracy is about the worst system of government to have when you are at war; War is the biggest factor in causing the implosion of democracies, historically.

"If we rely on the electoral college, does that mean that one man one vote cannot work in every election?"
Yes. As the founders intended. The President is not elected by popular vote so as to avoid having five populous states decide an election over the candidate of the other 45 states.

"Do we really live in a democracy?"
No, we live in a constitutional, representative Republic.

"Are we really free?"
No. With mostly leftist prodding and demagoguery, we have substituted "Freedom Lite" for the freedom that WAS our birthright.

"...[A]re these just ideals?"
Yes. They are just ideals to a spoiled, unprincipled electorate which views government as a smorgasboard from which to select what results you desire, without consideration of consequences.

"...those of us who still believe in a free country, that is represented by the people, for the people, and of the people."
Do you believe in Democracy or Freedom? They are different ( often conflicting ) concepts.

"The Electoral College was put in place to act as a buffer against an uneducated mob running roughshod over everyone else. However, we don't need it anymore."
- azred_tx

Are you kidding me? Did you hear what you said? Both sides concur that the other half of the country is an uneducated mob! We've never needed the buffer more! oh, if that was sarcasm, sorry about the flame. Yeah, I guess it had to be sarcasm, you couldn't really contradict yourself that quickly, sorry...

Ken C - Read "The Handmaid's Tale" We are not more free; we have exchanged "freedom to" with "freedom from."

Answer 2

The Franklin quote still holds sway with me on the freedom/security issue.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

The Patriot Act is an assualt on essential liberty and while some of it may have been seen as required by many I suspect they will wake up too late to the reality of what they have lost as a result.

The Electoral College is no longer required. The popular vote should be the standard. This idea that New York and Los Angeles will control the country without it is just ridiculous. There are many people who do not vote in these cities because they feel their votes do not count and they are essentially correct. It has always been my belief that if we did away with it more people would vote as a result. It doesn't really matter though. The essence of democracy is about one man one vote majority rule. The president is not all powerful and that is why we have 3 branches of government and a separation of powers.

You are correct though. We do not live in a democracy. We live in a representative republic and it is not quite the same thing. The honest truth is that a true democracy would be unworkable. In a true democracy all people would be allowed to vote on all issues and this would be an unmanageable standard to meet. All is not lost though. "We The People" do still have the power if we choose to exercise it and our greatest enemy is apathy. Always keep the faith!

Answer 3

I wonder if you'd at least consider looking at it this way .......Although I don't see any effort being made for us to 'abandon' our rights , let's consider what would happen in the case of a nationwide catastrophe .. . meteor hit , significant terrorist attack , a sudden global warming related incident , whatever .
The government would be put in a position where rationing of nearly everything would be necessary in order to ensure the survival of our people and our country . It would have to be done because if not , then the rich could buy everything available , and the poor would die . Even the rich would agree , because if the poor died , then who's gonna do all the manual labor ?!? So we would likely lose several freedoms for a time . Whatever amount of time was necessary to ensure the continuation of the USA and it's people .
So , would you call this 'abandoning' our rights ? I call it 'Survival First' . After surviving , we can discuss anything you want , but ya can't talk much when you're dead .

I believe the disconnect for some in our country is understanding the threat from Radical Islam . Both from possible attacks that may include chemical , biological , or nuclear weapons , and from the one that is so close yet most people are missing it . That is the threat that Radical Islamists COULD bring down the leadership in Pakistan , and then would be in control of 'Ready-To-Go' Nuclear Weapons . Currently it's largely considered to be the 'Nightmare Scenario' by darn near every analyst .
We're free , and freer than any other people on the planet . We just need to understand that sacrifices , hopefully short-term , might become necessary to protect that freedom.

Thanks for your time !!

Answer 4

We don't live in a Democracy. America has never been a Democracy. We live in a Republic.

As far as giving up rights... The constitution gives us several rights. Now, when it was written, there was a concept that was instilled into everyone since birth. It is a concept that we lack today. Responsibility. Rights without responsibility may as well be anarchy. We have a freedom of speech, which has been translated to freedom of expression. I know of many people who would like to "express their dislike of people", but refrain from doing so because it is not responsible.

Only the responsible are free, and it is the irresponsible that make it worse for everyone.

Answer 5

I believe it was Winston Churchill quipped something to the effect that Democracy was the worst form of government, except for all the other ones.

The false utopia is actually the socialist one, in which governments must somehow enforce the equal distribution of everything. This in the end stifles the human spirit and makes us all live in two bedroom flats.

As for the electoral college, it is pure genius. Perhaps you would like your president to be chosen by the residents of New York City and Los Angelas...but I think that there is tyranny in the majority as well.

Answer 6

We definitely live in a republic/representative democracy, in which we elect people to carry out political choices for us rather than having to hold a popular vote for every decision.

Only people who react out of fear would want to abandon any right we have. That means the terrorists win.
The only true means of gaining a victory over terrorism is not to give in to fear. In fact, we should take the opposite approach and be telling the terrorists "come on! attack! you will *never* destroy us, our freedoms, or anything other than some buildings...that can be rebuilt. your attacks are *useless* because we will not live in fear"

The Electoral College was put in place to act as a buffer against an uneducated mob running roughshod over everyone else. However, we don't need it anymore.

Answer 7

I will NOT sit back and listen to another liberal trying to tell the rest of the world that President GWBush is ruining this country...he isn't! Political correctness is our downfall right now. Take a look at poor Gordon Brown in England who's afraid to speak up and do anything concrete about the atttempted bombings...because it isn't PC! We have happily existed in a wonderful Democracy for over 200 years and you will not be allowed to discredit this nation!

Answer 8

I think you are confusing some definitions. There is a difference between pure democracy and a representative democracy. We live in the latter where we have a constitution and a government set up to provide security and such. We select those who lead this government in regular elections because its too complex for us to make every decision as a public.

Answer 9

Sure you would want a pure democracy? Put everything up to the popular will? Woman's suffrage. Civil rights act of 1965. Affirmative action. Gay rights. Death penalty. Patriot act. Be careful what you wish for. The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing when they set things up as a representative democracy rather than a pure democracy.

Answer 10

democracy COULD be a reality, but it would take EVERYONE voting, and people would have to be able to make educated decisions instead of just assuming what you hear on tv or the radio is truth.
I don't think that's ever going to happen, the world is too full of lemmings.
btw - just because you hear bad things about Bush, doesn't mean the whole country believes them. The media is very LIBERAL - do you think liberals are going to have something good to say about a conservative president? Definitely not! His actions could be 100% liberal and they'd still hate Bush because he says he's a conservative.
Doesn't make sense, does it?