question on pardons?

Question

i'm a little confused...although it doesn't always take much...
if bush was able to pardon libby, just like that, is there a legitimate reason why ramos and compean are doing 11 & 12 years?
i heard libby got the pardon because the sentence was "unreasonably long". wouldn't one think 11 & 12 years is "unreasonably long" for shooting a drug smuggler, (who happens to be an illegal alien who was granted immunity), in the a**?
is what libby did considered treason? or a breach in national security? a federal offense?

okay, i apologize; not a pardon. still, shouldn't he have been able to do the same with ramos and compean? i mean, keep them out of jail and with their families? is 11 and 12 years excessive?

Answer 1

It is the hypocrisy of it all.
People understand that although Bush has the power to do what he did, He failed to follow the rules set out by the Dept. of Justice with regards to commutations/pardons. He continually ignores the rule of law. This is what pisses me off and I am an independent.

Rules set out by the DOJ
1)Petitioner has to have gone to jail
2)The pardon request has to be made at least FIVE(5)years after the date of the release of the petitioner from confinement or, in case no prison sentence was imposed, until the expiration of a period of at least FIVE(5) years after the date of the conviction of the petitioner. Generally, no petition should be submitted by a person who is on probation, parole, or supervised release.
3)No petition for commutation of sentence, including remission of fine, should be filed if other forms of judicial or administrative relief are available, except upon a showing of exceptional circumstances.

There were no exceptional circumstances. Libby was convicted of three (3) felonies and one (1) misdemeanor. He was sentenced with the parameters according the to the Federal sentencing guidelines. It was not excessive.
Federal max for perjury-10 years per count. Min- 21 months. He was convicted on 3 counts
Federal max for making false statements- 5 years. Min-21 months.
The excuse used was pitiful. Little stoogie could not go to jail, it was hardship. Please.
These are the same guidelines that this same President holds up as his yardstick when it comes to the 2 Border Patrol agents who actually WERE doing their job, protecting our borders, yet they cannot get relief.
gimme a break
'
Edited to add
To those who love to talk about Marc Rich, your tin god did the following:
In 2005, Bush pardoned
1) A Bomber
2) A counterfeiter
3) 4 drug dealers
4) An embezzler
5) 1 man who commited mail fraud
6) A man who used the US mail to send threats
7) Tax Evader
8) A man who stole explosives.
These are just a few of the 113 people so far.
In addition, No where in the rules set out by the Department of Justice does it say that they are just rules of thumb that can be ignored
http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clemency.htm#commutation

§ 1.1 Submission of petition; form to be used; contents of petition.

A person seeking executive clemency by pardon, reprieve, commutation of sentence, or remission of fine shall execute a formal petition. The petition shall be addressed to the President of the United States and shall be submitted to the Pardon Attorney, Department of Justice, Washington, D.C. 20530, except for petitions relating to military offenses. Petitions and other required forms may be obtained from the Pardon Attorney. Petition forms for commutation of sentence also may be obtained from the wardens of federal penal institutions. A petitioner applying for executive clemency with respect to military offenses should submit his or her petition directly to the Secretary of the military department that had original jurisdiction over the court-martial trial and conviction of the petitioner. In such a case, a form furnished by the Pardon Attorney may be used but should be modified to meet the needs of the particular case. Each petition for executive clemency should include the information required in the form prescribed by the Attorney General.

§ 1.2 Eligibility for filing petition for pardon.

No petition for pardon should be filed until the expiration of a waiting period of at least five years after the date of the release of the petitioner from confinement or, in case no prison sentence was imposed, until the expiration of a period of at least five years after the date of the conviction of the petitioner. Generally, no petition should be submitted by a person who is on probation, parole, or supervised release.

§ 1.3 Eligibility for filing petition for commutation of sentence.

No petition for commutation of sentence, including remission of fine, should be filed if other forms of judicial or administrative relief are available, except upon a showing of exceptional circumstances.
He has not even started the appeals process yet for the convictions. The appeals process he went through was appealing his not getting bond to stay out of jail during the appeals process.
so I wonder when is he going to commute the sentence of the 3000 people who are in jail for the same crime that Libby was convicted of and serving similar time.
Someone used the source of jurist, this same site has yet to ANY of GWBs pardons to their stats or list.
Figures.

Answer 2

I don't think I could agree anymore Ramos and Compean
are being screwed and deserve a pardon.
All that they did was to shoot at a smuggler that had
800 pounds of marijuana in his truck brining it across
the Mexican border into the US, and then failed to report
the shooting for 2 or 3 days. Call it a cover-up but no way
should that become a sentence of 11 and 12 years, that is
certainly unreasonably long and Bush should Pardon them
not commute, a full pardon.

Answer 3

Libby did not receive a pardon. Part of his sentence was commuted. Not the same thing. His conviction and other punishments still stand.

Answer 4

@Little miss Queenie up above me.....

You quoted the guidlines, but left out a couple things, first

-"The regulations SUGGEST a five-year waiting period (after conviction or the end of incarceration) before a person becomes eligible to apply for a pardon"

-Note, however, that the Title 28 regulations are merely "advisory and for the internal guidance of the Department of Justice personnel"(28 CFR 1.11). Given his Constitutional authority under Article II, Section 2, the President does not have to follow them, and indeed Presidents, for various reasons, have gone outside them at various historical junctures (for example, the pardon granted to Richard Nixon did not go through the standard process; neither did President Clinton's recent pardon for Marc Rich).

Like it says, these are guidlines, but the president doesn't have to follow them. It is funny how Bush haters always seem to forget who Marc Rich was. For those who can't remember he was pardoned by Bill Clinton, and also donated alot of money to Clinton and helped fund his library.

@Queenie....The link you gave, read 1.11, you gave the link so I am not making this up, it says...

-The regulations contained in this part are advisory only and for the internal guidance of Department of Justice personnel. They create no enforceable rights in persons applying for executive clemency, nor do they restrict the authority granted to the President under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution.


Do your homework!!! Just because you don't like Bush doesn't mean everything he does is illegal

Answer 5

bush did not pardon libby , a pardon means you are free and clear , libby has a $250,000 fine and 2 years probation

you could say what libby did was treason

and yes you are correct , if bush was going to help anyone it should have been those border patrol agents , although libby was being loyal to him so he couldn't just forget him

Answer 6

I agree with the rest. His sentence was commuted. NOT PARDONED! The prison-part of it anyway. Legaleze is so hard to understand. Especially among "career politicians" living off of it.
Didn't Clinton give full pardons to terrorist from Puerto Rico? (F.A.L.N. members)

Answer 7

Wow,

First of all only his prison sentence was commuted not pardoned.

Second of all the rest of the sentencing stands.

And no lying is not considered treason, or Bill Clinton would be in jail

Answer 8

I think Bill Clinton has the most experience at pardons. Such being the case, assuming Hillary wins in '08, the responsibility will be hers.

Answer 9

There is no litigitimate reason that those two are in prison...none! Treason no, for not remembering what was said? Natinal security, no, the leak was done my Armastade, Federal offense, no!

Answer 10

I agree \and we need to lift the rules of engagment in iraq ,
kick azz and come home