Who thinks that the only reason the red wings are good is because of their weak division?

Question

All you wings fans, I am not trying to trash-talk the wings here this is just logic. Over the past several years, the red wings have gotten older and older, yet still kept finishing with the best record in either the West or the whole league. Why did this happen? Because over the last several years the Central division has emerged as the weakest division in the NHL.
In the 2002-03 season:
1. wings-110 pts.
2. blues-99
3. hawks-79
4. preds-74
5. jackets-69
In 2003-04:
1. wings-109
2. preds-91
3. blues-91
4. jackets-62
5. hawks-59
In 2005-06:
1. wings-124
2. preds-106
3. jackets-74
4. hawks-65
5. blues-57
In 2006-07
1. wings-113
2. preds-110
3. blues-81
4. jackets-73
5. hawks-71
Almost every season the division has produced 3 of the top 6 worst teams in the league. Could this be the reason the wings always get so many points but always lose in the playoffs? If you know even an ounce about hockey, you should understand that this is the only reason.

Only in the past couple of years has nashville began to form itself as a formidable opponent, but this season, they got rid of most of their key guys. Once again the central is the weakest division in hockey. If the red wings played in the NW division, like the avs, I am POSITIVE they would have missed the playoffs at least once in the last several years. red wings fans, you must admit that I bring up a good point.

Yes, the wings have won cups, they had some great teams in the past, but I'm talking about the last 5 seasons. I mean they even started playing all those sucky teams 8 times each! That's like 48 guaranteed points right there! If you win 6 games out of 8 against each of those teams.

Erica, I must disagree with you, you argue that those teams in the division suck because the red wings keep beating them, therefore the red wings are a great team. BUT those teams not only get beat up on by the wings, but by everyone else in the league, which proves that those bottom teams do indeed suck, and the red wings are only good because they play them all the time. This is hard evidence and numbers I'm providing here, it's pretty much undisputable. Admit it wings fans, your team just isn't as good as their record over the last 5 years says.

Wings fan, even if you take away those 4 guys (who are their main guys so not counting them is illogical) you still have 4 guys; maltby, draper, holmstrom, and lidstrom who aren't getting any younger. That's 8 of your best players, who are very old and will soon retire. That's not good for you. I agree that Holland is probably the best in the NHL, but he doesn't seem to be doing much towards the future.

Yes dulfin88 each division does have a bad team, but 3?? no division has 3 horrible teams.

Kid, you must understand, that the reason the red wings won all those presidents trophies is because they play over 20 games a year against teams that completely suck. This is a very simple concept, if you play bad teams you're going to get free points. If you get a lot of free points, you will win the presidents trophy.

J R, they have all those president's trophies, 50 win seasons, and all of that because they play over 20 games against teams that suck balls. That is the reason for that, if you play against teams that suck, you will get a bunch of free points. And since the avs moved to denver, we have 2 cups and the wings only have 3. Saying they have 8 more cups isn't smart, because they've been in the league since the original 6, the avs have been here for only 11 years.

J R, I'm talking about the last 5 years here, the NW division has been VERY tough the past 5 years.

Penguins are my 2nd fave team ever, Erica, Pens rule! Again, to make it clear for a lot of you ignorant people out there, I'm talking about the LAST 5 SEASONS.

BTW, sshueman reminded me of something. Why the hell is Detroit hockey town??? I guarantee you that hockey is much more popular in montreal, toronto, vancouver and ottawa than it is in Detroit. The wings didn't even sell out their first round playoff games last year! How are they hockeytown?

I only asked this because I always wondered what a wings fan would say if told him this. Erica, you bring up some good points, but I'm talking last 5 years here. BTW I liked Roy too, and it is a shame to keep any goalie out there for more than 6 goals allowed. Wings fan, you are funny, a drill that can only screw backwards, lol, that is pretty funny. "You" your answer was the funniest, we really did have the Cup in our hands last year! We really are locks for it this year too! LMAO. Seriously, I'm not being sacrastic, you guys made me laugh!

Well "you", I actually did have to go to sleep last night, so yeah no response. Also, I did find the responses funny, and I voiced my opinion, because I have a sense of humor, and appreciate it when I read something funny. Why do you say I don't represent my team well? If you had read closely, you might have seen that this discussion WASN'T EVEN ABOUT THE AVS, IT WAS ABOUT HOW THE RED WINGS ARE OVERRATED! I am not trying to talk about the Avs here, but you're too ignorant to see that. You're the one who didn't represent his team well. You are actually the one who didn't present a counterpoint to my argument. You just started ranting about Patrick Roy, and arguing with Erica. You are the one who didn't stand up for your own team. You didn't say a single convincing thing that disproved my logic.

There are red wing fans out there who stood up for the wings like wings fan, redwingsrthebest and JR, they actually argued my original point. I actually respect them for that.Those people have some class, you have no class. And how can you call me a coward???Who the hell are you to call me a coward?!? Do you know me? Have you ever talked to me in person?? No, you haven't. Don't judge people you don't know. I will stand by my Avs through thick and thin, and I represent them well. I don't care what you say, I KNOW that I am not a coward, and I KNOW that I represent my team well, and no one here will shut me down on that. The wings are overrated, and no one will make me change my mind on that. The Avs are better than the wings now and no one here will make me change my mind on that either. You need to grow the hell up.

JR, you don't seem to understand that the reason the Avs played bad the last 5 years is because we play in the best division in the NHL, we play 32 games a year against legitimate playoff teams. Lack of hockey knowledge??? What did you possibly base that on??? I know much, much, more about hockey than you think. Yes, I am biased against the wings, but you are biased toward the avs. We are both hockey fans and we'll always be biased. So don't say that because I'm biased, I lack hockey knowledge.

BTW, if "you" haven't noticed, the Avs won 2 games against the wings last year, one in regulation one in OT. The old-fashioned way. The wings won the other 2 but one was in a shootout (the cheap way out). If the format was the same as it used to be, the avs won the series last year. Even if you look at it in modern perspective, we tied the series last year. And this year we will win the series, remember that. So yeah, we are rivals again. Just watch.

Let's see... Where was I when the Avs missed the playoffs? Oh yeah, I wasn't on Yahoo answers. That's why I didn't say anything then "you".

Answer 1

I agree. With the post lockout schedule it has intensified this divisional disparity. Looking at Detroit on paper and there is no way they should be shooting for the President's Trophy each year. Check the stats, barely a 30 goal scorer among them. Last year they tied Buffalo for first overall in points. Buffalo had 4 players with over 30 goals and Detroit had one and he was 29th overall in the league. Like you say, they are old too.

But you shouldn't point it out to them. It is their downfall on why they can't go far in the playoffs. They are built just good enough to do well in regular season. Come playoffs when the real travel schedule starts verses real opponents means that after their cushy season they fall apart.

Answer 2

"BTW, sshueman reminded me of something. Why the hell is Detroit hockey town??? I guarantee you that hockey is much more popular in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver and Ottawa than it is in Detroit. The wings didn't even sell out their first round playoff games last year! How are they hockeytown?"


OK the reason the games didn't sell out is because Michigan has about the worst economy in the country. The Pistons didn't sell out either in the playoffs, and the Buick Open, had a much smaller attendance this year. People aren't spending money like they used to- foreclosures are at an all time high here- you can find work, people are getting laid off- its a very sad situation here. Detroit is hockeytown. Its not about how many games sellout- look at the Ducks- they won the Cup and no one cares in that part of the country! Anyway- its more of an attitude than anything- people love the Wings- they are the Yankees of the Hockey world. :)

I see what you are saying, and it could be. But I dont mind- at least we make the playoffs every year *keeps fingers crossed for another good year*

Answer 3

It has definately helped pad their stats, their is no doubt about that. Thats not why the Wings were good though. Would they have had that many points if they were in a differant division? No, not a chance, but just because they had to play weak teams doesnt mean that Detroit wasnt good. Look at some numbers from 2006-2007:

Regular Season stats against western conference playoff teams:
Record: 18-11-3
Total Points: 39 out of 64 = 61%

Stats against LA, Columbus, Chicago, St Louis, and Pheonix:

Detroits Record: 23-4-5 Points: 51 out of 64 = 80%
Anaheims Record : 18-6-4 Points: 40 out of 56 = 71%

So Detroit won 61% of their games against western conference playoff teams, and that has nothing to do with what division they are in. Now look at Anaheim and Detroit, the top two in the West. Columbus, St Louis, LA, Chicago, and Pheonix are the worst teams from both divisions. Detroit only played these teams a total of 4 more games than Anaheim, and they had a higher winning percentage too. If Anaheim were to have played 4 mores games against these teams and got all 8 points, their winning percentage against them would still be lower. So was Anaheim only good because they played so many weak team? Dont forget that Detroit also made it to the WCF and that series could have swung either way.

Answer 4

Well...by your own logic: if those other teams suck because they're being BEATEN by teams in other divisions, then I guess the Wings could be a good team because THEY BEAT teams in other divisions. I explained why those numbers are low. Teams aren't good now because the other teams in their division suck, they're good because they do well in the playoffs frequently.

Here's an example: Personally, I think the Southeast Division in the East is the worst. Two teams from that division have won the Stanley Cup in the last 5 years though. The fact that they made it to the playoffs can be attributed to the fact that their division blows probably. Once you make it TO the playoffs though, it's all about whether your team is GOOD or not. They had to beat those good teams from different divisions to win the Cup. Just like the Red Wings beat their opponents to win the Cup, and just like they beat opponents to make it past the 1st round of the playoffs.

EDIT:...I know you're talking about the last 5 years... Detroit won the Cup technically in '02 (the 2001-02 season). And they have been good in the playoffs the last 5 years...

Answer 5

They are a good team. That's why they finish up there year after year. They play solid defense and have some very good young players that he stepped in and produced. Yes Chelios, Lidstrom, Schneider, and some others are getting older but they are all still producing. Its not as though those guys are only good half the season and then do nothing the rest of it. Datsyuk, Zetterburg, Cleary, and Filppula all played well and are all under 29. Its also a top heavy division. Nashville was a very good team last year.

Answer 6

since when has the wings been drafting and signing players for col chi and stl. its not det fault that these teams dont make a commintment to winning the way wings do.
how strong is the nw division again 2 teams out in first round 3rd team out in secound round hmmm yet det "choked"(love people saying that) with a wcf lose against a team that openly admit det was only team that challenged them.
age k the three oldest got named i guess hasek well most people in det even say toss him. but lidstrom and chelios... age is just a number both played at a level few could even come close to in the playoffs. once they start falling off then people can complain about their age.

Answer 7

I guess it makes a difference since a team plays their own division a lot, but the red wings have won Stanley Cups and do reasonably well most years in the playoffs. But the wings do have very talented teams every year and that makes a big difference too in gettinf so many points.

Answer 8

Your exactly right.......that weak division is also the reason they won 3 Stanley Cups in 6 years and made it to the conferance finals this year, being the only team that worried the Ducks and their fans on there way to win the Stanley Cup.

And the Wings are not getting "older and older"....as someone previously mentioned, take away the three old guys, Chelios 45, Lidstrom 37, and Hasek 42, their average age is 29, not that old now is it?

They are consistantly good because thay have the best GM in the league, Ken Holland, and some pretty damn good scouts. They draft players from deep in the draft that others have over looked and they turn out to be excellent players, for example, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Konstantinov, and the list goes on. they also trade for some not so good players who turn out to be pretty good in the Wings system, kind of like Draper, Cleary, Maltby, and many more.

But to answer your question, yes, having a weak division helps, but so does having an excellent team.

*Edit* Your a tool. And not a useful one like a screw driver or a hammer....More like a drill that only has reverse.

Face it buddy, you are BITTER! Your still living in the 90's when there was a rivalry between these teams. I don't think you can answer a question on here with out saying "Red Wings suck"

Oh my, how could you forget to bring up the Hockey Town Argument in you Wings bashing question? Shame on you for forgeting that bit of infomation.

Did you finally go to bed? Ah, so sad, i was actually having fun reading your completely moronic statements....

*Another edit*
Now thank you for the good argument, it was fun, i need one of those every now and then.

Answer 9

I agree with you.First off the Wings are old.They come to Columbus 4 times a year and usually take it to us.And its not their fault for being so good.Its just that usually you rise to the level of your competition.And with Detroit I think they just go into auto pilot when they play us.We need to beat them and win a season series against them.Nashville finally stood up to Detroit but it was all for naught.Detroit lost again in the playoffs but played the Ducks better than Ottawa.They are Detroit.It still means something and they are still the DRAW in the NHL.If they played outside of our division they would have a worse record but be a better team.

Answer 10

They must have some talent as they have made the second round of the playoffs most years. I think their regular season numbers get a bit inflated from beating on Chicago and Columbus.

Answer 11

YES

And they will win the Pres trophy this year because of there weak weak division

The Preds are going to be a cake walk, Columbus sucks, Chicago is still young and St. Louis Beelows!