Do you think anti-feminists fail to comprehend how 'privilege' works as a social phenomenon?

Question

Peggy McIntosh writes in “White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack” (http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html ), an essay in which she draws parallels between white and male privilege, that “Through work to bring materials from women's studies into the rest of the curriculum, I have often noticed men's unwillingness to grant that they are overprivileged, even though they may grant that women are disadvantaged. They may say they will work to improve women's status in the society, the university, or the curriculum, but they can't or won't support the idea of lessening men's. Denials that amount to taboos surround the subject of advantages that men gain from women's disadvantages. These denials protect male privilege from being fully acknowledged, lessened, or ended. …

[W]hites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege. So I have begun … to ask what it is like to have white privilege. (cont.)

I have come to see white privilege as an invisible package of unearned assets that I can count on cashing in each day, but about which I was 'meant' to remain oblivious. White privilege is like an invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools, and blank checks."

But McIntosh also adds that "After I realized the extent to which men work from a base of unacknowledged privilege, I understood that much of their oppressiveness [as perceived by women] was unconscious."

Do you agree that if (particularly male) anti-feminists became more conscious of and educated in the meaning, function, and significance of 'privilege,' they would better appreciate and feel less threatened by feminism?

Robinson, your question about where people with hybrid identities fit into this is truly great and unanswerable. You're going to have a lot of experiences in life - once you're out of high school - that will help you decide.

Have you read Mark Twain's _Pudd'nhead Wilson_? It'll bake your noodle.

And for those of you who still have no idea what we're talking about or complain that "these privileges are true for people of all races in the U.S.," here: http://wik.ed.uiuc.edu/index.php/White_privilege .

Ha ha, waswis. It's funny and ironic you mention Jesus. He may not have been racist, but white people have sure eagerly claimed him - and Mary - for their own race. It's just "not right" to picture an African Jesus.

Answer 1

Well, I read the list of White Privileges, and it struck me that I could switch them out for Male Privileges maybe half of the time.
And in response to Cameron; I live in New England, a sleepy little town in Rhode Island, and there is no way that these White Privileges do not apply here in my town. Not only are there White Privileges but there are Class Privileges. I have to make sure when I go shopping in certain stores in "town" that I put on make up and jewelrey and dress properly, or I won't be waited on with respect because they will assume that I can't afford to shop there.
That is how pervasive these "privileges" are in our DNA; we don't even recognize them. That's where the good old saying: "Walk a mile in my shoes" comes in handy. Try thinking what it would be like if you were not a white male and that list really didn't apply to you - because believe me, it does.

Answer 2

Well I fear modern Feminism terribly but I've not raped nor killed anyone, however, this is inconsistent with the literature of modern Feminists. They contend that all men are rapists, so either I'm unaware of my serial tendencies to rape or modern Feminists are not of sound mind. What's even more interesting is that modern Feminists proudly proclaim that they own and operate clinics for the prophylactic castration, penectomy and pre-frontal lobotomy of young men. I find this horrifying. A pre-frontal lobotomy is a terribly simple procedure to do and even a modern Feminist could be trained in performing this very simple outpatient procedure in less than 45 minutes (this has been termed perhaps the most barbaric procedure that has been performed in medicine). Obviously, the medical community in the West has not performed this savage procedure in about a century. Modern Feminists still take great merriment at these clinics which they operate and brag about in public forums with impunity. If a man spoke this way about operating such clinics for the prophylactic irreversible mutilation of ladies, he'd be immediately taken into custody as there's nothing funny about mutilation of others. This is a yet another classic display of the inherent hypocrisy of modern Feminism.

Answer 3

Yeah, you're probably right.

The problem is that this "privilege" is ill-defined. In addition, women have their own privileges, as do minorities. Consider a poor white male who wanted to go to a university. A poor black male would have a better chance of getting in than the white male because of affirmative action. Of course, most white people aren't in that state, and more minorities are poor than whites, but that doesn't change the fact that some whites are disadvantaged in that particular circumstance.

If you want males to recognize their "privileges," you can't make it a confrontation either or use baseless statements like "White are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege..."; how, pray tell, could this possibly be proven?

Also, why lower men's status in the first place? Why not raise women's? If the only way to make men and women equal is to arrive at the "lowest common denominator," then forget it- leave that garbage to "communism."

EDIT: I should note that it would be particularly helpful if this "privilege" were explained to us- I refer to the actual benefits, the extent of the privileges, the basis of the privilege in modern society, etc. It would also be helpful if it were considered alongside the female/minority privileges noted above. I asked a question about it if you care to answer.

Also, how do these privileges apply to "mixed" people? My skin doesn't look black, but it's certainly not white. Am I included with the "black" group on account of the "one drop rule," am I considered mixed, or am I white?

Answer 4

I suppose you could say I fail to see how privilege works because personally, I don't see that I have any extra 'knapsack' on my back. I'm a white male, in the lower middle class of America, and I don't see any special privileges I get on a daily basis, either because of my race or sex. Just saying that we have them doesn't make them true. Can you give an example of some of the privileges I get on a daily basis. I haven't read the essay by Peggy McIntosh yet but just because you say I have special privileges, doesn't mean anything.

I'll edit this after I read the essay, but we don't have anymore special privileges then any other race or gender in my opinion.

*Edit*
Wow, is this person a professor at a university. I would never pay to hear a lecture by her. I just finished reading the 50 daily effects of white privilege... What is she talking about. Those things are true in any race of people or any gender. Those statements were completely ridiculous. Those are her views on white privilege. I'd disagree with almost every single one of them and say that either A) They are true in any race/gender, or B) They are untrue in any race/gender.

The article is way to opinionated with no research to back up anything she stated. And the list of white privileges, makes her come off as a racist. I don't know where she is from but in New England, I couldn't disagree with her more. If that's her personal belief that because of society white's are privileged, she is a racist or just ignorant. I don't mean to be name calling but with no research accept only her personal experiences on this, I don't know how else to feel. This is complete BS to say that these privileges are facts without taking a public poll or some sort of research.

Answer 5

Yep, I think many white people have no clue what white privilege is, and refuse to admit it exists. The same is true of male privilege, many men can see what they *should* get since they are male, but it seems like quite a few can not see what they *do* get just by being male.

When I've seen a question or hear someone start a conversation that starts with, I'm not racist but...I know I'm going to hear something racist! I have been blasted by whites for my views on racism, and called a traitor to my race, because I actually admitted I have white privileges and that I have racist thoughts. I think it's impossible not to have racist thoughts when you are bombarded with racism every day in the media and in our society. So I have called the people who say they are non-racists, Jesus clones, since that's the only one I can think of who may have been capable of being non-racist.

So I know what's coming once I hear, I'm not sexist but...I'm going to hear something sexist! I think it's too threatening for many people with privilege to admit it; the more privilege you have, I think the more difficult it is to see it, since you don't know what it's like to be treated "less than" every day of your life because of a characteristic you have no control over.

Answer 6

I don't think that it really is the extent of the problem. I think it's more of a class problem - *rich* white male privledge, rather than simply male privledge. Growing up in a working-class Irish family, I'm not really able to think of a single instance when my father, for example, gained any benefit by virtue of being white or male. He had no business connections other than the ones he personally made, and I highly doubt that he had an easier time getting hired anywhere than would an equal-ability black person or woman - recently. I can't speak for minorities, but I think that in the last thirty years especially the problem is more one of socio-economic status rather than a white male system. It is difficult to sort out how deep discrimination runs, and it certainly does exist, but I do think that it has become more a matter of class system more than racism or sexism.

EDIT: "most white people aren't in that state" (of needing assistance going to college). Not true - there are 2.5 poor whites in America for every 1 poor black person. Poverty is a problem for every race.

EDIT: Most of the problems on your list are a direct result of white men running the show, or the perception people have, correctly or incorrectly, of minorites being criminals or irresponsible. The only way to change this is to encourage women and minorities to get ahead in this society (take part in running the show), act with dignity, and change people's minds. How we should help them do that is a matter of much debate.

Answer 7

NO!
NO to that racist article of which I am well aware and no to any one who thinks white privilege applies to the majority of whites. No to lowering men's or white's status to bring up women's and people's of color when instead the latter should be raised and the former not lowered. And no to anyone who thinks white and male privilege can be compared in today's world as they went their own separate ways four times in our history ...
when uneducated male former slaves and non white men were granted suffrage many years before even educated white women were,
when women were granted suffrage many years later but expected to vote with their men, and essentially not granted any other rights...we are still fighting for the same basic list we wrote up 150 years ago
and during the civil rights wars or whatever you want to call them at the beginning of my lifetime. While many non white men are sexist as well as racist etc. they include their sisters with them when they try to improve their condition.
Now the fourth as we are being flooded with immigrant labor that we can't all compete with. While many men are struggling they can keep their heads above water so to speak, but white women are again as a group at the bottom of the political and economic ladder.
Most people are working class, men and women alike. There are still very strict divisions of labor based on gender but not necessarily on whether or not women could actually do the work, just on a tradition of men's and women's work. I experienced this as recently as 2 days ago.
Men of other races feel pressure to include their women in their racial struggles while white men feel pressured to keep their women in their idealistic roles of wife, mother, secretary, nurse, etc. These female stereotypes which minority women struggled to attain have been the chains keeping white women into the most narrowly defined roles of all the groups.
So, very few people benefited and now benefit from white privilege... regardless of the propaganda to the contrary, but 35 to 45% of our society are negatively affected by dividing labor and resources to the advantage of males, with white women being at the bottom shared only by immigrant women who eventually join up with some minority rights group and leave us behind as well.

Answer 8

That's interesting.
I don't think we can consider men who recognize women as being disadvantaged (but aren't quite ready to sacrafice their own privilege) anti-feminist, but halfway there.
Anti-feminists are men who are aware of patriarchy and happy with it. Male anti-feminists consider themselves traditionalists, just as female anti-feminists consider themselves traditionalists.

Once one is sufficiently decentralized and sensetive to all problems of social inustice, be the racial, class related, gender or other, one begins to relinquish privilege in favor of equality.

Anti-feministsmight understand "privilege", just as they use the word. The privilege of being the head of the household, the "privilege" of being the breadwinner and the decision maker, but seem to tie it into their own seperate moral construct - just as feminists (like myself) tie feminism into their own seperate moral construct. Gender equality is an ethical structure just as traditionalism is.

I just find that one works better for society than the other.

Answer 9

I recognize and would relinquish some of my privileges if women would simply admit to their privileges in dating, in the home, and in divorce court. I wouldn't even ask them to relinquish them, just admit to them. I guarantee this is too much to ask of most women.

Answer 10

I don't know what you mean by white priveledge. I have never seen this exercised except in the deep south and places like brittain - and in brittain it is mostly extinct. I have seen men in most countries and even ethnic groups here exercising their male priveledges and they are not totally subconcious.