Are we closer to communism or fascism today?

Question

While communism is the control of business by government, fascism is the control of government by business.

My American Heritage Dictionary defines fascism as "a system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership together with belligerent nationalism."

Hitler's propaganda chief Herman Goerring once said: "It is always simply a matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

Benito Mussolini's insight was that "fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."

Answer 1

We are a long way from both. Arguing extremes like this is not productive.
Address what is really happening.

Answer 2

Given the present times, this country is far away from becoming a communist society. The ideals of communism are fairly simple for the most part: everyone is created equal, with the intentions of doing what's best for the people. In such a society, if you are a farmer, attorney or police officer, you make the same wage-- no person (by law) makes more money than the other, because that would disrupt the balance. (However, this system is often corrupted by the use of bribes-- if there is a threat of going to jail, you can bribe the officer and he will let you go. This is technically illegal, but extremely common.) I would have to say that Fascism seems to be the growing trend---- "individual and other societal interests subordinate to the interests of the state"

Answer 3

Fascism is far worse, and something we have been experiencing to some degree for a while, in my opinion. Fascism starts slowly. It starts with censorship. That has been happening for a while and continues. It's interesting that you quote his propaganda chief--who, in the media, is not a propaganda chief? When books start disappearing, and people are tortured or in hiding because of their beliefs, fascism is alive and well. When the information we receive is screened for us, our thoughts have become controlled. Yes, some group has always determined what we can/cannot be exposed to, but it is becoming far more pervasive and accepted. That is the only part of fascism that interests me, because I know it's all downhill from censorship. And that's where we are.

Answer 4

The basis of your question is flawed.

Both Communism and Fascism involve government control of business. And it seems you've made some changes to the actual definition given by the American Heritage Dictionary, because it actually says:

"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

The key bit you cut out would be socioeconomic controls.. AKA government control of the economy.

Further, your quote from Goerring seems a bit questionable, as he would only know Fascism as an Italian political party led by Mussolini and certainly wouldn't reference the Nazis as such.

Answer 5

Obviously we are moving toward (while still being some distance from) a fascist state because, as you point out, Fascism involved the merger of corporate and government interests. This has long been denied/ignored by free marketeers, who for decades characterised Hitler as a 'socialist', purely on the basis of the title of the Nazi party.

Today we live in a climate of pure economic freedom and repressed freedom as citizens. The policies of Hayek and Friedman, which only ever recognised freedom in economic terms, are entrenched all over the world. Another poster has noted that 'we elect our government' but we have a two-party system, whereas the Soviets and Germans and Italian had a one party system. Other than that, there are few differences- if you want to change your society you hack your way up a party structure that is corrupt and weeds out the talented- no different, in practice, from Russia circa-1970 to any democratic country today. Like the citizens of totalitarian states, we are mentally conditioned to think that leaders not endorsed by the major party (or the other major party) are irresponsible, crazy.

We have the window dressing of democracy, but the elements designed in to allow change and checks and balances have, over time, been eroded and controlled.

It is ironic that since the end of the Cold War we have embraced totalitarian-style control of our societies: in my country you are generally under constant video surveillance in inner cities, you can be arrested and held without charge for two weeks. When released, you are breaking the law if you tell anyone where you were. We are forensically searched at airports, we have to stop for police and give our details without reasonable cause having to be shown. Sniffer dogs patrol trains and nightclubs and public streets, indicating people who might have contraband, who must then submit to police search. Use of 'offensive language' is a crime, and there is no definition of what that is. Protest is not tolerated if it attracts any attention at all, and secret police units photograph even the most peaceful, community-based demonstrations, keeping dossiers on protestors.

But it is not illegal to avoid tax by even the most transparent means, and our freedom to bamboozle pensioners out of their life savings by the use of carefully-constructed dodgy investment schemes is sacred. The right to sell semi-toxic food to children, and advertise to them, is defended by government as a basic right. The right to sell junk bonds and secretly donate huge amounts to political parties are protected. If a company needs a law changed, it is changed.

All this has been introduced, or extended, in the last 30 years. And still 'patriots' protest that we have a glorious system of control by the people. They are idiots, of course.

Answer 6

That's a funny question.

"While communism is the control of business by government, fascism is the control of government by business."

This isn't really accurate.
If you believe it so, than the USA is more fascist than communist by far.

Communism is an economic theory.
Fascism is a nationalistic dictatorship.
They're not really comparable.
Communism/Capitalist
Fascist/Democratic...would be more sensibly comparable.

Since "all men are created equal", "equal rights", "one man one vote" etc are pretty communistic sentiments...in fact the theory of democracy is quite communistic in nature. (Marx never mentioned dictatorship or democracy BTW). Democracy is definitely more Communist than fascist.

But any country, communist or otherwise can be fascist in nature....the USSR under Stalin for example...was both fascist and communist.

When you say "we" I assume you mean the USA.
With two dubious election victories (one he definitely lost by 523,000 votes) Bush is bordering on being a nationalistic dictator (especially with continuing one-man war in Iraq) but assuming he'll be gone in 2009, by democratic law, I'd have to say the USA system is more democracy (therefore communist) than fascist.
But based upon your corporate/government proposition its more fascist.

Answer 7

Fascism. No doubt.

"Paxton further defines fascism's essence as:

* "1. a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond reach of traditional solutions; 2. belief one’s group is the victim, justifying any action without legal or moral limits; 3. need for authority by a natural leader above the law, relying on the superiority of his instincts; 4. right of the chosen people to dominate others without legal or moral restraint; 5. fear of foreign `contamination."[13"

What country does this make you think of?

Answer 8

In a fascist society we would not have the freedom to choose our politicicians, have freedom of speech or religion and most of the people rebelling against society would be killed not put in jail, but you could say that there are many american politicians and citizens with somewhat of a fascist mentality.

Answer 9

Neither. Capitalism is the word.
Or as they used to say in the late 60s.
''The way to cure a communist is to give him/her a bit of capital"

Answer 10

We are Fascist, Big Business and Government run this country, to their own benefit.

Answer 11

We are closer to facism, the greatest paralell I can draw is to the idiation in V for Vendetta in which our own citizens are taken away by our government as "enemy combatants" in the name of security, and because we are patriotic we say nothing, America is like this, they read your mail, email, tap your phones with no court order, all in the name of this phantom terror threat that only materializes as close as the UK, there is a great quote:"when they took the jews away, i said nothing, when they took the blacks away, said nothing, when they took the catholics away, i said nothing, and when they came for me, there was nobody to say anything..."

All We Are Saying....Is Give PEACE a chance!