What do you think about this quote about war not being "the ugliest of things"?

Question

John Stuart Mill,18th century philosopher:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

Please, keep your language, and avoid unnecesary criticism. The question is not entirelly about war but rather about peace and the convienence of maintaining a peaceful atittude at all times...

Personally, I think that to answer this would be like answering this other question: "would it be better for our countries to be more like Switzerland even in times like 2nd World War?"

P.S.: I have nothing against Switzerland. That was only for explanatory purposes...

Answer 1

First of all, it's in human nature to fight. War is ugly, yes. It's terrible. People die, often horribly, separated from their families and suffering greatly for one reason or another. However, there are uglier things. War is not the ugliest because, at times, it is a necessity (if not politically or philosophically, think materially as far as population versus how many people die in war: humans have no natural predators except ourselves, wars are a way to keep ourselves in check). He means that the idea that nothing you have is worth fighting for is uglier. That is, say, for an American, democracy. The idea of not fighting to keep your freedom is much uglier than the war that would ensue if you did fight.

Answer 2

War is an ugly thing but even uglier is the lack of patriatism that is expressed by this country today. The men and women that died on 9/11 didnt ask to be killed. They were murdered. They died because someone decided that as a nation we are an unethical people, an immoral people. Somewhere someone has declared a religous war on us. We may be free but until we are able to step away from fear, hate, pride, and hipocracy we will never be truly free. Switzerland declared itself neutral during WW2 because they knew the Jews needed somwhere to go. Do you truly think that if Russia and the Allies hadnt defeated Nazi-Germany that they would have allowed Switzerland to remain neutral? No, they would have bombed them the same as they did England and France, only with more determination because they basically had everyone trapped against the sea, there was no where else to go. Neutrality is exceptionally hard to maintain. That Switzerland has done so for so long is a testimony to their beliefs. America on the other hand believes that we must mediate everyones conflicts even if they dont want it. No one is allowed to have a civil war any more because we will step in and end it. We claim peace, equality and freedom for everyone, while here at home there are mini-wars being fought on our streets by gangs, oppression continues even though the rights of minorities were established some 30 yrs ago, and we arent truly free, we have become slaves to the dollar. The working poor have replaced the middle class while our politicians sit on their wide girths and spout euphamisms about how well they take care of their people when in truth their people are not the ones they represent but rather the CEOs of companies and corps, directors and actors, bankers and inventors. We used be a government for the people by the people with the best interests of our peers in mind. Our hubris has corrupted us, we believe we are infallable and indestructable. Sadly we have forgotten that Rome, that mighty empire, did not fall due to outside attack but rather decayed from within like a rotting corpse. Freedom is won through hard work, death and blood shed. The Revolution wasnt fought because it sounded like fun, it was fought because we believed in something, and it was that believe that got those brave men throught those dreadfully cold and hungry winters. The Civil War was hardly civil but again, there were beliefs behind it. We have lost our beliefs and our dreams and our hopes. We have lost love of country first and foremost. My grandfather was decendant of Irish Immigrants some 5+ generations gone but he still claimed Ireland as the home land and was proud to be called an Irishman. I have been raised American but the appathy and discourdant behaviors of our nation, the lack of support for our troops has made me change my stance. I am proud to call myself an Irishwoman living in America, because I find nothing in my country to be proud of save those who fight in valient effort to keep this nation free.

Answer 3

Mill gets down to the issue immediately: apathy is worse than war. Those who have nothing about which they care enough to fight are a sorry lot. It's one perspective, and it is from a very different time. His point of view has no real relevance today except in a metaphorical sense. We all have things we want to achieve, but is literal fighting necessary? With the accumulated wisdom and time that has passed since Mill's been around, you'd think we would have progressed.

Answer 4

To call war ugly is to call life ugly. The savage beauty of a lion or the elegant grace of a gazelle both arise from the brutality of the evolutionary struggle. Life feeds on death. For every meal you’ve ever eaten, something had to die.

All life competes for the resources required to reproduce. The winners get to pass on their genes. This is Darwin. When humans organize large groups to fight for resources, we call it war, but war is nothing more than an ornate variant of the game all life plays

War may be brutal, but dropping out of the life game is just plain pathetic. This is what Mill means when he says: "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.”

Switzerland is a porcupine. It’s a cold harsh crappy piece of real estate, in which every able bodied adult male receives military training. France on the other hand is prime real estate filled with, to quote Matt Groening, ‘cheese eating surrender monkeys’. Germany’s choice to attack France instead of Switzerland was painfully simple.

America is prime real estate. So we can’t decide to be Switzerland, we can only decide to NOT be France.

Answer 5

I believe that it is saying that when a populace is so degraded by moral and social and economic structures that it will not fight to exist, it has no right to exist.

I am not talking here of people who hold to a 'higher' code for example one life is more valuable than land, war is about killing to obtain land therefore I will not fight to obtain land. In this case the person, culture or society has made the decision that the lives that would be lost have more value than the gains of fighting a war. This does not mean that such a group is weak or underserving and will lie down and die but that they would seek another option.

I am talking about a society that has devalued itself in respect to it's people to such a point that there is no reason to fight to protect the soceity. Why should I fight to help him, I am more important than him so he should fight to protect me. There is no value in fighting a war since it would take money and resources away from me. Such a self serving soceity has no right to exist on the global stage and as such it would not fight.

Please note that the society stated before is not not going to fight but would hold it as a last resort. Any society that would not fight at all does not have any right to exist either.

Hope this helps.

Answer 6

what i think is John Stuart Mill did not mentioned that not everyman fought that there were those who had the job of supply officer were just inpoertant.there is a quote''for want of a paper clip the war was lost'' perhaps humorous but suitable . there were men who were cooks in mess halls and in army camps even laundrymen or laundrywomen these were important as well. a man can even fight with his tongue or with a quill. if not enough do so then they might be called not so good men but then there might be a better woman than a man who might defeat the war with her quill. it might also need to be revised to a better human. if the quill was sufficiently tested perhaps war would not triumph .the quill never has been though as enough effort has not been expended or dissent quashed.a better humanity might take up the quill wherever they are citizens and bury war under pile of paper their opposition generates.if everyone in Germany, the U.S, Britain,Canada, Turkey, everywhere were to write somehing in opposition during the w1. then marched in mass protest even left their contries and tried to join eachother at the borders of their countries or within those countries it would have been different. without one the other would not have been possible. so there is another quote''all that is necessary for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing'' well was not that war evil millions of men machinegunned ,gased bu mustard gas or maimed. it set the stage did it not. well so there you are good people can protest warfare as it is in warfare that evil flourishes like a flower with a death's head like a destroying angel that poisens the mind and the spirit blackens the heart and stains the soul. what needs to be said is young man do not go the things you see or the things they will make you do will stain your soul black. what every one needs to hear is a voice from the meatgrinder of war saying'' i've been inside the meet grinder once and i am never going back. what needs to be said is young man do not do the things they want you to do they will blacken your soul and at that point there is no going back. what needs to be said instead is to mention that once you are in you cannot see for the clouds of hatred blackening your vision like a poisinous gas. the black empty socketts of skulls staring out at at a place where one a house stood. where bullets seek the flesh of all humming like blood thirsty flies. a table laid out for the vultures and the vultures and all other scavengers dancing and joy gathering from afar and setting down to the meal laid out for them and singing your praises dancing for joy. once this is made clear to everyone that they can die in combat and after maggots shall use their skulls for houses if they fight from the air that they meaning others not fighting could be turned into screaming torches during bombing runs in which bombs are dropped their homes if not under protection in time. if this is told this could be the better man during anytime. it has only gotten worse with time. that this has not happened to the U.S is something which must be considered as this is what it has meant for other nations.