So how do Red Sox fans feel about their $100M investment (in a pitcher)?

Question

All below salaries are based on what they get for the 2007 season.

Daisuke Matsuzaka so far this year:
8-5 with a 4.18 ERA, $6,333,333

Just picture this from guys right above and below him in ERA:
Chuck James (my boy) is 6-6 with a 4.11 ERA, $397,500
Tim Wakefield (your boy) is 7-7 with a 4.18 ERA $4,000,000

Okay now let's pit him against the best pitcher in baseball Jake Peavy (it's my opinion) - I would pick Smoltz but I must remain unbiased:
Peavy is 9-1 with a 1.98 ERA and a $4,750,000 price tag

If you want an AL comparison then let's take Dan Haren:
9-2 with a 1.78 ERA and a salary of 2,250,000

Just add on the rights to talk to that guy and my goodness, the per season salary he really costs is astounding for what you are getting in performance. I was expecting more of a 1995 Hideo Nomo and it's more like 1998 Hideki Irabu. Gosh it makes the Yankees deal for him look great in comparison. WHOA!!!

I think minus about 5 teams, Daisuke Matsuzaka's total cost is about as much as a whole payroll for one team.

Craig S - Factor is negotiation rights as well and Dice-K looks even worse. And I never compared Wake or James to him the way you are saying. I took the guys right above and below him in ERA, James and Wake. According to you nobody is comparable.

And Craig S (since you went ahead and threw it out there) - It probably truly costs Boston $10-12M not factoring in the bonus he received. Guys like Smoltz and Hudson (seasoned veterans) get $8M base salary. Still no comparison. Dice-K is a rookie who gets money better than guys like Smoltz and Hudson. So get real man. Seems like you are a little faulty in your assessment.

Sorry, he doesn't actually get all the money. So he does get less than Smoltz and Hudson. But based on what it costs the two teams would be more fair of me to say. The cost of the teams for the pitchers, not what the players actually all receive in pay.

Jeff P. Yeah a guy like Nomo in his first year is reaching? Yes, I do know Wake is a knuckleballer and one reason why he can still pitch at his age. But yeah I do have my mind made up. Nomo didn't have problems with ML pitching his first year and his stuff was nasty too. I only see answers calling me an idiot who knows nothing from Red Sox fans who want to make excuses. I have seen him pitch and I read the stats. Stop making excuses. There have been some excellent answers to my question aside from the one's who try to say I know nothing about baseball. I also have a marketing degree so I know what value other than statistical that he holds. So in terms of great answers the guy who made my eat my word "investment" kudos. But I am more along the lines of in a statistical sense. I agree we won't know for a while but I do know what Nomo did when he first came into the league.

Also Jeff P - like I said before I just didn't pick Wake or James out of a hat. Those guys are right below and above him in ERA like stated before. So my chose of pitchers has merit, your evaluation of why I chose those pitchers doesn't. Sorry!

choice of pitchers

Answer 1

this is one of those questions that you really don't want an answer. You have already made up your mind. He's a rookie coming from another league. To pitch the way he has is pretty good. Coparing him to guys like Peavy, and others is really dumb. You actually brought up Wakefield....a knuckleballer? Seems to me you don't really know baseball too well. If you want to ask a question, fine, but you already have your mind made up about him. Might be a good idea to look at the AL East standings and see if that was a "good deal" for them.

Answer 2

Theo Epstein and the Red Sox made the investment based on a variety of factors aside from salary and performance. Daisuke Matsuzaka was a long term investment, whose returns will exceed baseball statistic production. Matsuzaka's global exposure, endorsement benefits, and overseas franchise branding will be a siginificant financial benefit to the Boston organization. Matsuzaka will open a new market (Japan) for the already most popular Major League Baseball team.

Answer 3

I am very happy withthe investment, you looked at the number without actually looking into them. Daisuke has actually pitched very good, he has had a couple rocky games but he has also shown the ability to throw some great stuff. He is tiedd for fifth in wins and fifth in strikeouts. Also, if you actually look at his starts he could realistically be 12-1 right now if he got run support he gave up only 3 runs in one of his loses and in three of his loses he gave up only 2 runs. Daisuke has a lot of potential and he is still learning a game that is a bit different.

Watch, Daisuke is going to be a greta pitcher, he has great control and nasty stuff, watch him pitch and you will see he is going ot be something special. The Red Sox paid a lot for him but he been worth it, they are in first right? He could easily be 12-1 if the team could have scored more then 3 runs in four of his loses, he has 7 game where he gave up 2 or fewer runs, he is has a few 10 K performances, and a complete game as well.

Also, lets look at the pitchers you mentioned in their rookie years. Peavy only had 90 K his entire rookie year, Daisuke is already about to beat that, Peavy went 17-6 his rook year a good record, his ERA 4.52 Daisuke could beat that and Peavy had 0 complete games his rookie year, Daisuke has already beat that.

Haren, had an ERA of 5.08, only 43 K, 0 CG, and was 14-3.

It is way to early to say Daisuke was a waste of money, lets let it play out and see what happens. I think Daisuke will really become something just liek Peavy and Haren have.

Answer 4

Your salary comparisons are somewhat unfair.

If you're going to compare Matsuzaka and/or Wakefield to other pitchers, you should at least choose those who have had the opportunity at free agency. Of course Peavy, James and Haren are going to come cheap for their performance - none of them have had a shot at free agency. In the case of James, he hasn't even become arbitration-eligible.

Try this same comparison after Peavy has his six years in, and see if it comes out the same. I agree that Dice-K hasn't set the world on fire, but he's been decent. This just sounds like a bunch of sour grapes.

Edit - Saint, I just meant that there salaries are thrown off because of their shortage of service time. I get now, though, why you chose them - I didn't realize they were the next in the ERA line. And don't get me wrong - I agree that Dice-K hasn't been worth the investment to this point, and I'm sure Peavy will remain an ace even after he hits the free agency jackpot.

Answer 5

Michael B., that was one of the most intelligent postings that I have seen on this board. Every point you made is valid. Some people do not see the "whole picture". You not only get a decent pitcher, but you get so much more financially in return. It was a shrewd and smart business move for Boston and they will most likely get 15+ wins out of this guy in his first season in a real baseball league. Not too shabby to me, knowing he has yet to fully acclimate himself to America, the league, and this culture. I will not judge if this guy is a bust or waste of money until a couple of years have gone by, especially not three months in the season.

Answer 6

I feel better than the giants fans feel spending somthing like 126 million dollars on an idiot like barry zito who has a losing record unlike dice k. Also the sox didn't want to go for crap like gil meche for 11 mil a year. So they went for the most marketable pitcher who was avaailible. Dice k. It doesn't matter if dice k isn't doing so well because half of japan will love him no matter what and he will easily capture the japanese maket.

Answer 7

As a Red Sox fan, I want to give the guy a chance. It usually takes a year to a year and a half to adjust to another league. Even from the NL to the AL, never mind from another country. If by next July we are seeing the same things, then I will feel it was a mistake.

Answer 8

a million. Are you chuffed that Theo has chosen to no longer make any drastic strikes? No. the hot Steinbrenners have shown that they are keen to open up the checkbook and could sign and sign and sign as many precise-notch gamers as they could. Theo should be waiting to compete and which potential getting adult men like Halladay/Holliday & Bay/Gonzalez in the event that they become obtainable. there remains a great form of time to make those strikes, and if the Sox do no longer make some significant strikes to advance, they would be finding up on the Yankees lower back. 2. might you be ok if the sell out chain is broken in some unspecified time interior the destiny interior the 2010 season? It won't ensue, barring any problems with Fenway Park itself. yet who cares, particularly? we don't circulate to video games for the ecosystem, we decide for the product on the sector. and perhaps much less persons on the previous ballyard will provide me some greater leg room. 3. might you even circulate as a strategies to declare which you would be chuffed if the pink Sox weren't that stable this 300 and sixty 5 days and you'd be chuffed that the bandwagon fell off? i might like to work out the pinkhats disappear, yet, as greater time passes, the pinkhats are turning out to be greater knowledgable. it is like they are 5 years previous now. perhaps we are able to coach them the thank you to study (a scorecard) this summer season.

Answer 9

I have to agree with lkycharmz, he's right on the money in his answer.As a Red sox Fan, I have no reason at all to judge him or his performance thus far.It is only June here.I do believe that Matsuzaka has gone out to that mound every 5 days and pitched very well for us.Just because he has the price tag he does, does not mean he should feel the pressure of winning every game he pitches.This guy is going to be remarkable, mark my words.He's already 1/2 way their.

Answer 10

he is definatly not living up to his expectations, but few thoguht he would. noone coming over from japan can be as good, its not possible(except maybe for bullpen)
you want a much better pitcher at fractions of the price this year?
Dan haren a's- 9-2 1.78era - $2,250,000
James Shields Devil rays -6-2 3.64era(went down after 2 bad starts, he was 6-0 3.00era)- $ 394,900
Chris young padres- 6-3 2.26era $ 600,000