can there be e x a c t l y identical Eight-ball breaks in pool?

Question

even if a robotic performed the break and rack-up

Answer 1

Incorrect, yeeehaw.

Space is a continuum. That means there are an infinite number of positions for each ball to occupy. If you have Position A and Position B, there is also a Position C that is between them (and therefore different than them).

The chances of getting an identical break, down the atomic level, are effectively zero, regardless of how carefully you set up the robot.

Answer 2

It is definitely theoretically possible, but I don't know how reproducible it would be in practice. I'm pretty sure that a good robot could reproduce pretty much exact breaks. However, at some point, you're going to experience some breakdowns in exactitude due to quantum theory.

Answer 3

If you add the problem of exactly replacing the balls and performing exactly the same strike etc. to the problem that the behaviour will undoubtedly be chaotic then the chances of repeating the same break twice are zero.

Answer 4

There is a finite space for which the balls can occupy, so there must be a finite set of possible breaks. Therefore, there could be an exact duplicate of a break, given enough attempts.

Answer 5

The Break
The object balls are racked with the Eight-Ball on the Spot. In the absence of any competition / tournament rules to the contrary, a coin will be tossed to determine which player will break. If a series of frames is to be played (A Match), the break of each subsequent frame will alternate. The first shot of a frame is called the "Break". To "Break". the Cue Ball is played at the triangle of Object Balls from Baulk. The frame is deemed to have commenced the instant that the Cue Ball is played.

1. The Break will be deemed a "Fair Break" if:-

A. At least one Colour is potted.
and/or
B. Four Object Balls (at least) are driven to a cushion.

2. If the Break is not a Fair Break it is a Non-Standard Foul and:-

A. The opponent is awarded two visits.
B. The balls are re-racked.
C. The opponent re-starts the game and is under the same obligation to achieve a Fair Break.

D. If the Cue Ball is potted on a Fair Break it is a Non-Standard Foul that is penalised by the turn passing to the opponent.
E. If the break is not a Fair Break and the Cue Ball is potted, the penalty for failure to perform a Fair Break applies. (see (b) above).

If the Eight-Ball is potted on any break, the balls are re-racked and the same player will break again. When the Eight-Ball is potted on the break, all other aspects of the shot are ignored. (Except if a Serious Foul or breech of the "Spirit of the Game" occurs).

Legal Shot
1. On all shots, the player must:-

A. Cause the Cue Ball's initial contact with a ball to be with a ball "On",
AND THEN
B. Pot a ball "On" OR Cause the Cue Ball or any Object Ball to contact a cushion.

2. Failure to play a Legal Shot is a Standard Foul.

3. Exceptions:

A. On the Break, the conditions of a Legal Shot do not apply. (see (F) The Break)

B. When playing out of a Total Snooker a player is only obliged to meet the conditions of (1)(a) above. (see (Q) Total Snookers).

4. Interpretations:

A. If the Cue Ball's initial contact is with an Object Ball that is touching a cushion, simply forcing that Object Ball into the same cushion does not constitute a Legal Shot.

B. If the Cue Ball and the Object Ball are touching the same cushion, simply forcing the Cue Ball and / or that Object Ball into the same cushion does not constitute a Legal Shot.

Deciding Colours
1. General

A. When Colours have not been decided the table is deemed to be "Open". When the table is open a player may play at either group of Colours.

B. Colours can never be decided on a foul shot.

C. Once Colours are decided, the player remains "On" that coloured group for the duration of the frame. The opponent remains "On" the opposite coloured group.

D. Playing a shot after neglecting to nominate a choice of Colours is a Standard Foul. Any balls potted on such a shot are left in the pocket and ignored for the purpose of deciding Colours.

2. On the Break

A. If no Colours are potted on the break the table is "Open".

B. If one or more Colours are potted on the break the player then has a right and obligation to verbally advise the referee of a choice of Colour before proceeding. Failure to do so is a Standard Foul. If a player is fouled under this rule the opponent faces an "Open" table.

C.
i) If the player nominates a Colour that was potted on the break, the player is on that Colour no matter what happens next.
ii) If the player nominates a Colour that was not potted on the break, to be on that Colour, the player must pot a ball of that Colour on the next shot.

3. After the Break

A. If a player pots one or more balls of the same Colour, the player is then "On" that Colour.

B. If a player pots one or more balls of different Colours, the player then has a right and obligation to verbally advise the referee of a choice of Colour before proceeding. Failure to do so is a Standard Foul. If a player is fouled under this rule, the opponent faces an "Open" table.

Time Allowed
1. A player has a maximum of sixty seconds to play each shot.

2. The Referee will start timing when all balls have come to rest from the previous shot.

3. If the first thirty seconds elapses before a shot is played, the referee will call "Thirty Seconds" as a warning to the player. This call must be made the instant the thirty seconds has expired. A Referee should not postpone the call because it appears that the player is about to play a shot.

4. If a shot is not played within sixty seconds it is a Non-Standard Foul. The oncoming player is awarded two visits from:-

A. Where the Cue Ball lies, OR, if the player wishes

B. From Baulk

5. The referee may decide to grant "Time Out". being a period when timing ceases:-

A. At the request of a player. (For example, something is obstructing the player or the player needs to leave the playing area.) AND/OR

B. Because the referee deems that it is warranted. (For example, the referee may call time out when making a close foul snooker decision or when searching for a piece of equipment requested by a player.)

Fouls
There are four types of foul. Standard Fouls, Non-Standard Fouls, Serious Fouls and Loss of Frame Fouls. A player can only be penalised for one foul at a time. If two or more fouls are committed during a shot, the foul that carries the most severe penalty will apply except in the case of a Time Foul, where the incoming player has the right to "Ball in hand", penalty for Time Foul still applies, even though a Serious Foul has been called and applied.

Standard Fouls
Standard fouls are to be called by the referee as soon as they occur and the fouled player is in control, until all balls from that shot come to rest. The referee then awards two visits to the opponent.

1. Potting the Cue Ball - "In Off" {except on a Fair Break - see (F) The Break (4)(c)(1)}. The incoming player plays from Baulk {see (E) Playing from Baulk (d)(1)}.

2. Playing from outside Baulk when obliged to play from Baulk. {see (E) Playing from Baulk (2)(a)}

3. Potting an opponent's ball. (except when it is the properly nominated ball following a Foul Snooker or Foul Jaw Snooker)

4. Failing to cause the Cue Ball's initial contact with a ball, to be with a ball "On".

5. Accidentally striking the Cue Ball with any part of the cue other than the tip.

6. Accidentally striking an Object Ball with any part of the cue.

7. Playing a shot before all balls have come to rest from the previous shot.

8. Playing a shot before any balls that require spotting, have been spotted.

9.
A. Touching the table while having a cigarette (lit or unlit) in hand or mouth.

B. Causing a cigarette (lit or unlit) to touch the table or enter the space directly above the table.

C. Touching the table while having a beverage container in hand.

D. Causing a beverage container or beverage to touch the table or enter the space directly above the table.

10. Touching the table when not in control of the frame. {see(C) Definitions (9) - Player in Control.} Exception - When a player's turn is finished, that player has a maximum of 10 seconds to move away from the table. (see 11 below)

11. Not moving away from the table within 10 seconds of the time that all balls stopped moving from the final shot of a turn at the table.

12. Coaching:- During a frame, a player is required to play without receiving any advice from other persons relating to the playing of the frame. Should a team member or bona-fide supporter of a player offer advice, the referee will issue a "First and Final Warning" to that person that a repetition will result in the player being penalised via a Standard Foul.
Because it may not always be possible for the Referee to hear if a statement made to a player is advice, the referee may issue the First and Final Warning on the grounds that any statement made to a player, other than general barracking, is deemed to be coaching.
In a tournament setting, a First and Final warning may be given once only, before the commencement of the day's play as a block warning to all players and spectators

13. Leaving the playing area without permission. If a player needs to leave the playing area during a frame or match, "Time Out" must firstly be granted by the referee. {see (I) Time Allowed (5)}

14. Playing a shot after neglecting to nominate a choice of Colour when the obligation and right to do so existed. {see (H) Deciding Colours (1)(e)}

15. Playing a push shot or Double Hit of a type defined in (O) Push Shots and Double Hits.

16. Failing to perform a "Legal Shot". {see (G) Legal Shot}

17. After being awarded a Foul Snooker or Foul Jaw Snooker:- Playing an opponents ball or the Eight Ball without first nominating that ball.

18. Playing a shot while not having at least one foot touching the floor.

19. Failing to "Play Away" from a touching ball. {see (T) Touching Balls (1)(a)}.

20. A ball remaining off the table. {see (U) Balls Off the Table}

21. Players body or clothing touching any ball

Non-Standard Fouls
Non-Standard Fouls are to be called by the referee as soon as they occur and the fouled player is in control, until all balls from that shot come to rest. The referee will then impose the relevant penalty. Non-Standard Fouls are so called because the penalty and / or options of the incoming player may vary.

1. Failure to perform a Fair Break.

2. Failure to play a shot within 60 seconds of the time that the balls came to rest from the previous shot.

3. Potting the Cue Ball on a Fair Break.

Serious Standard Fouls
1. Playing a shot out of turn (accidentally or deliberately).

A. A player who plays a shot at any time during a frame when the right to do so does not exist has played out of turn. (For example, A player who plays a shot immediately after playing a foul or immediately after the referee has called a foul on that player, has played out of turn.)
B. Exception - A shot played out of turn accidentally, that disrupts the balls to such an extent that the Referee deems it impossible to replace them, the Referee will give the opponent the choice of either playing the ball from where they lie or replaying the frame. If the frame is replayed the same player is to break again.

2. Deliberately striking a ball other than the Cue Ball with the tip of the cue.

3. Deliberately causing any ball or balls to be moved in a manner other than that which may result from playing a normal shot.

4. Deliberately striking the Cue Ball with other than the tip of the cue.

5. Causing the Cue Ball to jump over any ball. (If the Cue Ball leaves the bed of the table and misses an Object Ball that would have been struck had the Cue Ball not left the table on an otherwise identical shot, the Cue Ball is deemed to have jumped over that Object Ball.)

6. Deliberately interfering, by word or action, so as to disrupt an opponents play.

Loss of Frame Fouls
1. Committing a foul in the same shot that the Eight Ball is potted. (Except on the Break).

2. Potting the Eight Ball when a ball or balls of the player's own Colour are still on the table. (except on the Break)

3. Potting the Eight Ball and the last ball or balls of the player's own Colour in the same shot

4. Committing two Serious Fouls in the one frame.

5. Committing a Serious Foul that disrupts the balls to such an extent that the referee deems it impossible to replace them as close as possible to their original positions.

6. Any deliberate attempt to prevent the opponent from potting the Eight Ball, when the opponent is on the Eight Ball, by way of a Serious Foul or other unsporting manoeuvre.

7. If a player breeches the "Spirit of the Game" to such an extent that the frame (or match) should be awarded to the opponent.

Push Shots and Double Hits
1. Definitions: Most shots commonly known as "Push Shots" in the game of "Snooker" are allowed in the game of Eight-Ball Pool. Generally, any shot played with speed will not be deemed to be a Push Shot regardless of the fact that the cue tip may have come into contact with the Cue Ball more than once.

2. Exceptions that are Standard Fouls:-

A. When, during the playing of a shot, the tip of the cue strikes the Cue Ball twice and the referee is able to actually see each contact.

B. When, during the playing of a shot, a player plays the cue so slowly through the Cue Ball that the cue tip remains in contact with the Cue Ball so as to be visibly pushing it along.

3. When the Cue Ball is played into a touching Object Ball.

Snookers
Definition: A player is Snookered when it is impossible to play the finest cut possible on both sides of any of that player's own Colour by way of a "straight-line" shot. Snookering an opponent is not a foul.

A player cannot be Snookered by a ball of the player's own Colour. That is, if one of the player's own coloured group is an obstructing ball, it will be ignored for the purposes of determining a Snooker.

A player cannot be Snookered on an Object Ball if the Cue Ball is touching that Object Ball.

A player cannot be Snookered by the straight sections of the cushions. If a straight section of a cushion is preventing the finest possible cut on the side of an Object Ball, that section of cushion will be deemed not to exist for the purposes of determining a Snooker on that Object Ball.
Exception - In a Total Snooker the straight sections of cushion DO come into consideration. If a player has to strike a cushion prior to impact with a "Ball On", then a "Total Snooker" does exist

If an Object Ball is partly obscured by a curved section (Jaw), this in itself does not constitute a Snooker.

Total Snookers
Definition: A player is in a Total Snooker when it is impossible to play any part of any of the player's own Colour by way of a "straight line" shot. Leaving an opponent in a Total Snooker is not a foul.

If a player believes that a Total Snooker exists, the player may ask the referee for a ruling.

If the referee rules that a Total Snooker exists, the player's obligations under the "Legal Shot" rule are relaxed as follows:- The player need only cause the Cue Ball's initial contact to be with a ball "On". The requirement to pot a ball and / or cause a ball to strike a cushion is waived.

Foul Snookers
Definition: When an opponent plays a foul shot and this results in the incoming player being snookered, the incoming player is deemed to be Foul Snookered.

If a player believes that a Foul Snooker exists, the player may ask the referee for a ruling.

If the referee rules that a foul snooker exists, the player initially has the following options:-

Play the Cue Ball from where it lies. {see (4)(a) below} OR

Ask the referee to remove the Cue Ball so as to allow the player to play from Baulk. {see (4)(b) below }

If the player chooses to play the Cue Ball from where it lies, the player may, if the player wishes, nominate the Eight Ball (but see (5) below) or any one of the opponent's Colour. The player can nominate a particular ball by verbal description of it or its position or by pointing at it. The Referee may ask for further information if any doubt exists as to which ball has been nominated.
Once nominated, a ball is deemed to "become one" of the player's Colour for the first shot of the first visit. The player may then play any of the player's own Colour or the nominated ball. If any of the player's Colour and/or the nominated ball are potted, the player continues with the first visit.

If the player chooses to play the Cue Ball from Baulk, a Foul Snooker may no longer exist. In this case the procedure under the heading (E) Playing from Baulk (2)(d) &(2)(e) should be followed. If the referee decides that a Foul Snooker does still exist, the player may nominate a ball and follow the procedure in (4)(a) above.

If the Eight Ball is nominated it may be played, but potting it will mean loss of frame.

If a player is "On" the Eight Ball and Foul Snookered:- The player may play a nominated ball or the Eight Ball and pot either or both of these balls, directly or indirectly, in any pocket or pockets.
Assuming the player does not commit a foul:-

If neither the Eight Ball or the nominated ball is potted, the player's first visit is complete.
If the nominated ball is potted and the Eight Ball is not, the player continues with the first visit.
If the nominated ball and the Eight Ball are potted, the player wins the frame.
If the Eight Ball is potted and the nominated ball is not, the player wins the frame.

If a Foul Snooker exists and the Cue Ball is touching an opponent's ball or balls, the player may, but is not obliged to, nominate one of those touching balls.

Foul Jaw Snookers
If an opponent fouls and the Cue Ball come to rest on or near a Jaw (curved part of a cushion), and that jaw is preventing the player from playing the finest cut possible on both sides of any of that player's own colour by way of a "straight line shot, the player is deemed to be Foul Snookered and all the rules pertaining to Foul Snookers will apply.

Touching Balls
General
If the Cue Ball is touching an Object Ball, the player is obliged to "Play Away" from that Object Ball at an angle of more than 90 degrees. (That is, play the shot without causing the Cue Ball to make any initial further contact with that Object Ball)

If, when playing away from a touching ball, the touching ball rocks or moves without being contacted further, but simply because the Cue Ball is no longer there, no penalty will apply.


When Colours have been decided:-


Playing away from a touching Object Ball of the player's own Colour:-
The instant a player plays away from a touching Object Ball of the player's own Colour, the player is deemed to have played that ball. Therefore, the player needs to then only pot a ball or cause any ball to strike a cushion to fulfill all the requirements of a Legal Shot.

Playing away from a touching Object Ball of the opponent's Colour.
The player must play away from the touching ball and then meet all the requirements of a Legal Shot.

Playing away from the touching Eight Ball when "On" the Eight Ball.
The player must play away from the touching Eight Ball and then need only cause any ball to strike a cushion to fulfill the requirements of a Legal Shot.
Playing away from the touching Eight Ball when not "On" the Eight Ball.
The player must play away from the touching Eighth Ball and the meet all the requirements of a Legal Shot.


Playing away from two or more touching Object Balls:-

If any of the touching Object Balls are of the player's Colour, the player will be deemed to have played away if the player plays away from any one of the touching balls of the player's Colour. That is, the player may play into any of the other touching balls. The player needs then to only pot a ball or cause any ball to strike a cushion to fulfill the requirements of a Legal Shot.
If none of the touching Object Balls are of the players coloured group, the player must play away from all the touching balls and then meet all the requirements of a Legal Shot.


When Colours have yet to be decided:-

Playing away from a touching Coloured Ball
The instant a player plays away from a touching Object Ball the player is deemed to have played that ball. Therefore, the player needs to then only pot a ball or cause any ball to strike a cushion to fulfill all the requirements of a Legal Shot.

Playing away from a touching Eight Ball
The player must play away from the touching Eight Ball and then meet all the requirements of a Legal Shot.

Playing away from two or more touching Object Balls.
If the player plays away from any of the touching Coloured Balls the player is deemed to have played that ball. That is, the player may play into any of the other touching Object Balls. The player needs to then only pot a ball or cause any ball to strike a cushion to meet all the requirements of a Legal Shot.

Balls Off the Table
It is Standard Foul if a ball leaves the playing surface (other than being potted) and remains off the playing surface or doesn't return by its own means.

Definitions / Examples
"Playing Surface":- The playing surface of the table is the flat part of the table between the cushions.

"By its own means":-
It is not a foul if a ball leaves the playing surface, runs along the top of a cushion, drops back on to the playing surface and comes to rest there or falls into a pocket.
It is a Standard Foul if a ball leaves the playing surface, comes into contact with a person or object that is not a part of the table and then returns to the playing surface.

"Off the Table":- It is a Standard Foul if a ball leaves the playing surface and comes to rest on other than the playing surface. (e.g. On the floor or on the top of a cushion)

"Spotted":- A ball is spotted when its centre point is placed on the spot or, if this is not possible, as near as possible to the spot in a direct line between the spot and the centre point of the cushion that lies the greatest distance from the Baulk Line. If this is not possible, as near as is possible to the spot, in a direct line between the spot and the centre point of the baulk line.

If any of the following balls require spotting, they are spotted in the following order:-
Eight Ball then
Red Balls in any order (or balls numbered 1 to 7 in numerical order) then
Yellow Balls in any order (or balls numbered 9 to 15 in numerical order)
Spotted balls should be placed as close to each other and any intervening balls as possible, without touching.

If a ball leaves the playing surface and remains off the playing surface, it shall be returned to the table:-

If it is a Cue Ball it is to be played from Baulk.

If it is an Object Ball (or Balls) it is to be Spotted.

Balls Falling Without Being Hit
Any ball that falls into a pocket at any time, without being struck, shall be replaced by the Referee to its original position, no penalty, player in control continues with the visit. If any other balls are moved in these circumstances they shall also be replaced as near as possible to their original positions and the player in control continues with that visit.

Interference
If any balls are moved during a frame:-

By a person other than the players taking part in the frame or,
As a direct result of one of the players being bumped or,


Due to any other event deemed outside the players' control such as:-
"An Act of God" such as an earthquake etc
Tip falling off a cue or end falling off a spider etc,
The referee will replace the balls as near as possible to the positions they were in before the incident occurred, no penalty shall be imposed on either of the players and the frame shall continue.

The referee will prevent any unauthorised marking of the table. If a player causes a block of billiard chalk or other foreign matter to be on any part of the table it is not a foul. However, the referee will ensure that the item is removed.

If a player repeatedly causes a block of billiard chalk or other foreign matter to be on any part of the table the referee may deem that the player has breached the Spirit of the Game and award the frame to the opponent.

Exception to (a) above:- A cigarette or beverage container.

Impossible Shot
A situation may arise during a frame where it is impossible for a player to play a shot without fouling. In such a situation the player has no other option but to commit a foul.

Stalemate
The referee shall declare a Stalemate if both the player and the opponent have three turns in succession where the Cue Ball fails to make contact with an Object Ball. In such a case, the frame will be replayed with the same player breaking.

Stalemate
The referee

Referee's Guidlines
The Referee's Duties and Guidelines listed below supplement those directions contained in various other sections of these rules.

The Referee's decision is final except where players have been advised that it is possible to appeal to a Head Referee or other higher authority.

Information to be disclosed / not disclosed by a referee:-

A player is responsible for knowing the rules of the game. It is not the referee's duty to explain or quote the rules to a player.
A referee, if asked by a player, may divulge certain information pertaining to the frame in question under the guidelines of the "Past, Present and Future Rule". A referee may divulge information relating to any past event or present situation in the frame. For example:- "Who's turn is it?" - Present. "Was that a foul?" - Past. Which Colour am I On?" - Present. However, "If I play this shot will it be a foul?" is a question regarding the Future and the referee should advise the player that the referee cannot answer this type of question.

The referee shall toss a coin to determine the break and announce the result.

If an Object Ball (or balls) is potted on the break the referee will advise both players of this fact by announcing "Ball (or balls) potted". When a player has a right and an obligation to nominate a choice of Colour, and does so, the referee will announce "Player 'A' On Red (or Yellow) Balls". When that player's turn is complete the referee w ill advise the incoming player of the situation by announcing "Player 'B' on Yellow (or Red ) Balls".

The Referee will call fouls as soon as they occur.
The call for a Standard Foul is "Foul, Two Visits".
The call for a Non-Standard Foul is "Foul, (and announce the relevant penalty)."
The call for a Serious Foul is "Serious Foul, Two Visits".
The call for a loss of Frame Foul is "Loss of Frame".

After a player has been awarded two visits the referee will make no call until the player fails to pot a ball "On". (Except for 30 second time warnings and for any fouls that may occur) The referee will then call "Second Visit" to advise the player that the first visit is complete and the second visit is about to begin.

The referee will call any instance when the Cue Ball is touching a ball "On".

In the absence of any competition / tournament rules to the contrary, two referees will referee each frame. One referee will make the standard calls such as "Second Visit" and a "Player a on Red (or Yellow) Balls" while the other referee will keep the time. Both referee's will be involved in the refereeing of the frame and either can call fouls. If one referee calls a foul, the other referee can not overrule the call. That is, the two referees have equal authority.