Just wondering on the comments and discussions of this topic.
2007-06-19 13:24:20 · 17 answers · asked by John 4 in Science & Mathematics ➔ Physics
I am convinced the answer is "no". Allow me to explain:
When a tree falls, it produces a compression wave in the air. That is indisputable. When the compression wave impinges on the ear drum of an observer, neurons fire and the result is that the observer has a sensation of sound. In analyzing this situation, it is essential to appreciate that the compression wave CAUSES the sound sensation..it is not itself a sound sensation. It is merely a movement of air molecules and nothing more. The sensation of sound doesn't objectively exist "out there". Rather, it is a subjective product of the mind "in here" . If there is no observer, the compression wave is still there of course, but there is no sensation of sound.
It is absolutely key to realize that "compression wave in air" and "sensation of sound" are intimately related in our everyday experience, but are not the same thing. The first causes the second.
Our "common sense" misleads us here because in our everyday experience, we rarely experience a "compression wave" without a "sound sensation". (That is why such compression waves are usually referred to as "sound waves"..a misleading use of language.) We tend to naively assume that they are one and the same thing. But they are clearly not.
Here's a case where we experience a "compression wave" but no "sensation of sound": when someone blows on a dog whistle. A compression wave is produced by the whistle. For a dog, a sensation of sound is then produced in its mind and 'experienced'. For the dog the sound sensation exists. For us, no sensation of sound is produced in our mind. For us, the sound sensation does not exist.
If you then ask: "Well does the sound sensation really exist or not? Who is right , the dog or me?" The answer is: "By saying 'really exist' you are implying that the sound sensation has some objective existence apart from the observer who hears it. That is simply not so. Sound sensations, and in fact all sensations, are NOT objectively existing parts of nature. Rather they are necessarily subjective parts of nature. For the dog, it exists. For us, it doesn't. Both us and the dog are right! A bit hard to swallow, but thats how it is.
(The alternative is to propose that there are infinitely many kinds of sound sensations existing in nature, of which we can only hear a few, dogs can hear a few more etc. Likewise one would need to propose that there are infinitely many kinds of color sensations existing in nature of which we can only see a few, and bees can see a few more etc. One would then also need an infinite number of smell sensations, taste sensations etc etc . But this is NOT science! Who or what so laboriously selected and arranged the infinitely many different sound sensations and color sensations and smell sensations and taste sensations? Science is utterly silent on such questions. For they are not part of science at all.
The amazing paradox is that if you cling too tight to the notion that everything must be objective, because you somehow feel that's what science says, you find yourself actually abandoning science in favor of idle fantasy.)
If you analyze all sensations (sound, color, smell, taste, pain, heat etc) in the same way it becomes absolutely convincing that this way of thinking is correct. (I would be happy to elaborate for anyone who is interested)
p.s. Tape recorders (or any recording device) operate by the laws of physics. They merely make a physical record of the compression wave. No "sound sensation" is captured by the tape! In fact, the laws of physics don't know anything about "sound sensations" at all! The laws of physics only deal with the compression wave in the air (ie the motion of the air molecules). Only when, in the presence of an observer, the tape is played back (and thereby re-generating a compression wave in the air) does the mind of the observer produce a sound sensation ..for the first time.
I am not ignorant of nor denying the laws of physics. I am a physicist. Contrary to what is commonly thought, the laws of physics do not invalidate this explanation. Just the opposite! The laws of physics allow for no other explanation than this one.
2007-06-19 14:38:57 · answer #1 · answered by ontheroad 2 · 2⤊ 0⤋
What is the sound of one hand clapping? Not being a Zen master, I don't know. Sound waves from the fallen tree would exist even if there were no ears to hear them. We aren't sure what effects sound waves have on the surface of the earth or on vegetation but that doesn't mean that there is no sound any more than our inability to see beyond 3 dimensions means that only 3 exist.
2007-06-19 13:31:15 · answer #2 · answered by Holly R 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
i'm sorry. i did not even could examine your tale to decide if I enjoyed it--it is so long!!! there isn't any "white area", the grammar is kinda undesirable, and it form of seems such as you employ too many adjectives. the final element you may do top now, is... make a sparkling paragraph each and each time the subsequent person speaks. shop the stable adjectives, and don't pass overboard with describing. Make it sound previous shaped, flowery, and yet, short. (occasion: "he regarded bowled over"--"he blinked extraordinarily at her". it is merely an occasion. perhaps not a stable one, although. LOL.) (i could develop my own writing by utilizing looking up maximum of those Yahoo! Questions. LOL) ok, stable success!!
2016-10-18 02:09:59 · answer #3 · answered by ? 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Yes, it does make a sound. Even if noone is there to hear them, sound waves are still created and propagate in the area. Just because there are no witnesses does not mean that something does not happen.
2007-06-19 13:28:59 · answer #4 · answered by Sam 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Well, obviously it makes a sound - there are ramifications of discharge of air molecules when the tree hits the ground, etc.
The reason this is a successful Zen koan is because it makes you ask yourself about the nature of reality. Does a person have to witness something for it to happen?
If you see Buddha in the road, kill him.
FP
2007-06-19 13:27:39 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Yes, A tree was about to fall, so I put a recorder around and went away, and the sound didnt reach me, but the recorder played it =)
Mystery solved
(scenario not true)
2007-06-19 13:28:25 · answer #6 · answered by Forksided 3 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Of corse it produces a sound. Just because it isn't heard doesn't mean it did not create a sound. When someone is deaf and and someone is speaking. They still make a sound even tho it is not heard.
2007-06-19 13:27:55 · answer #7 · answered by Kellie 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Similar question:
If two husbands are talking in the woods, and there is no wife around to hear them ...
Are they still wrong?
2007-06-19 13:32:29 · answer #8 · answered by robert_dod 6 · 3⤊ 0⤋
Yes. The ''sound'' is still present.
2007-06-19 13:29:20 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Do this......put a tape recorder in your house and then call your home phone from your cell phone after you leave. DOES IT RING?
2007-06-19 13:33:52 · answer #10 · answered by gin and juice 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋